Nicholson, the flute master

Irish Flute
21

If you played the flute in the 1830s, you learned to play the entire instrument, all the keys, all the chromatics. Just like you would learn to play the Boehm system today. To think otherwise is to show your ignorance of music in general.

ITM players don’t need the keys on a flute and, as such, don’t learn to use them as a matter of course. That’s why keyless flutes abound! As long as the tunes are predominantly in D, G and the relative minors, there’s no need for them and, by extension, no pressure to learn them properly – or at all.

Virtuosity is a matter of clarity and speed. Nicholson’s performances were of the highest caliber…but as you learn more about his playing, it was about volume and trickery. The glide, the shake, and the long long (interminably long) cadences and flourishes. That’s why the music looks like that.

There is no connection between Nicholson and ITM…except perhaps his is one the more beautiful renditions of Irish Airs ever performed? Do the research and you’ll learn more.

dm

22

I wanted to add on Chris Norman that his performances take up everything possible for ITM.

Listen to his playing and anything you’ll ever wish to accomplish in ITM is in his repetoire. And he does it exceptionally well.

That’s what I meant.

23

I haven’t heard anyone playing his rendition of Roslin Castle (a scottish tune AFAIK) although it’s not for the lack of trying and I’ll certainly never be able to hear the man play it itself. Perhaps you could throw me a bone and point me in a direction that shows why studying Nicholson, a scottish classical flautist whom I will never be able to hear, would be as useful as studying the music of the “flute geezers,” mcevoy, tansey, molloy, etc.

I’m open to the idea, but so far the study of various 19th century treatises on flute playing has not been more productive for me than listening to my music critically and measuring it against rolemodels that I can listen to.

24

I have to agree with David Migoya, last weekend Chris Norman was here in Sevilla, Spain, in a workshop, and all the flute players like me were incredible surprised by his pplaying and his wise music concept. I heard him before in recordings, but hos live performance in front of me discovered a completly new world to me. A real master, if you have the opportunity to listem him playing live don´t hesitate and go.
Regards,
S.

25

Perhaps you could throw me a bone and point me in a direction that shows why studying Nicholson, a scottish classical flautist whom I will never be able to hear, would be as useful as studying the music of the “flute geezers,” mcevoy, tansey, molloy, etc.

I’m open to the idea, but so far the study of various 19th century treatises on flute playing has not been more productive for me than listening to my music critically and measuring it against rolemodels that I can listen to.

Sometimes the ducks really do just fly up to you and say “shoot me now!”

Okay…why study Nicholson? (and I’ve never advocated studying him over anyone…in addition to would be certainly better)

McEvoy rarely uses the entirety of her flute keys. Perhaps as passing tones (and that’s a good thing too) but not as a matter.
Tansey’s Rudall has been missing it’s keys for years. Why? He removed them because they were in the way.
Molloy will occassionally use them for the odd tune, and does it well.

If you ignore the proper use of the keys…and I do mean “proper,” then you’re only learning and using 1/2 an instrument. You’re only giving yourself 8 notes of a scale that actually includes 6 more (keeping on the major equal-temperament scale, mind you) of which, in D, we actually will use the C# because…aha…no key needed!

So the only thing musical you’re missing is…music.

Challenge yourself. Open up to what’s there and you’ll see some great moves because you absolutely understand the instrument.

Of late many flute tunes are hitting the 3rd and 4th registers. Easy for an old fifer like me, but amusing to hear all the flabby lips out there because they never bothered to go a ledger line above B!

And regarding Norman…if there is one single thing you ought to work very very hard to replicate of his…it’s TONE. Most of the flute players today stink at it, spending way too much time with the fancy finger stuff and their lip is awful.

Long-dead guy in Nicholson? Long-dead listeners? Hmm…
then why are they still playing any of the classics?
why bother with Rampal (he’s dead).
Why bother with Josie McDermott for that matter. He’s dead, too!
Or Frankie Kennedy?

Damn glad I’m alive! I’d soon be forgotten!!

By the way…Nicholson was born in Liverpool…which is in England.

26

My point was that we can actually listen to Rampal, McDermott, Kennedy, etc, because they were recorded… As opposed to imagining what they sound like based on someone’s description. I can and do admire McDermott because I have recordings of him that I listen to often. I can’t admire Nicholson for his tone, and neither can you, because neither of us have actually heard him. I admire his reputation but I still don’t know what he sounds like.

The rest of your advice is perfectly relevant for anyone who shares your taste and ideals of the music.

27

Hear, Hear! :smiley:

28

Chris Norman knows his ITM. He’s quite capable of discussing and demonstrating the different styles of many many current and past Irish flute players. He has old 78’s of Irish players. Probably his most “traditional” performances were on his first couple of albums with Ken Kolodner, which I don’t think have never been released on CD.

Getting back to the original topic, since we don’t have any recordings from way back when, we don’t know exactly what the styles were then, but Chris Norman has studied an awful lot of period texts, and if anyone can play in the style of Nicholson, it’s probably Chris.

And, yeah, the tone is to die for.

29

so i suspect we should fully ignore all the written materials of the day, reviews and texts (many of them) that described how Nicholson played…how Drouet played…how Richardson played…how Rudall himself played…how Pratten played!

Ignorance and narrowmindedness must be a blissful position: there is so little left to challenge what little you have left!

don’t ever study Beethoven, Strauss, Bach, Brahms…or dare I say, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, or…well, fill in the blanks. You’d drive yourself mad trying to understand any of it without a tape recording at your elbow.

Why listen to Rampal? His is obviously only guesswork of a master we have no recording of how they actually sounded…so he could never know he was doing it “right.”

Quick…close your door! Some light might actually leak in!

30

David,

You know, I get your point. Yeah, it’s true: I am an ignorant dumbass in some ways. But, I do know about playing in all keys and in all octaves; can do so on my silver flute. Here’s the thing—I just can’t imagine playing Bach, Mozart on a simple system flute and playing in all keys in 3 octaves probably because I’ve never played a fully functioning, fully keyed simple system flute. I find my keyless harder to handle technically in many ways than my Boehm. Maybe one of these days when I have an extra $2000+, I can have an eye, ear opening experience. Now, I guess I have to eventually get a keyed flute. Better start saving now…

31

Somewhat of a straw man. I don’t think you are talking about studying any of the esteemed composers instrumental tone quality / virtuosity etc are you? Study of compositions is not limited by death of the composer because I can walk into a concert hall or buy a recording and get a fair idea of what was intended, plus what I hear will very likely bear a close resemblance to what I imagine when I look at a printed score. On the other hand, would it make sense to study Mozart’s violin tone by reference to written historical materials? Perhaps yes to a certain extent, but it could never reach the level of even a brief hearing of a Menuin recital.

32

Don’t worry, he was probably yelling at me. I think my intentions were misunderstood… I will try one last time, by approaching it from a different direction.

Point one: I expect the Chris Norman’s own tone is much more important to him than Nicholson’s, and the same went for Rampal. I’m sure they had their idols but to get to that level as an individual artist I believe they had to follow their own sensibilities.

Point two: I don’t think Molloy, McEvoy, or whoever the top irish players are any less remarkable because they don’t use their keys much. I believe they are playing the notes they want to play and if they felt like they were missing something, they would figure out how to make it happen.

Point three: I don’t think one has to study 19th century classical flute in order to play irish music well.

If these positions make me ignorant, narrowminded, and worthy of such anger, then there’s no point in my continuing to participate.

33

I think you’re onto something here. Remember Honest Abe Lincoln, the great American President. Was he really that altruistic? I mean where is the TV doco where he was televised live? Where are the CIA phone taps to demonstrate he was as honest as they make out.

Yes, historical records cannot be credible merely on the basis of recording methods contemporary to their occurence. New technology must be able to to go there and record that history according to the standard of technology we now have. Otherwise history is not relevant.

I apply this to my personal life as well. I never apologise for any error on my part unless the error can be prooived by DVD or video recording. I mean we all know the defects of literary reporting, don’t we?

Actually there is no filmic or audio proof that Nicholson could even play a flute. And don’t expect us to believe what is written in a book. People can write things that aren’t true although very persuasive. I mean look at my post here right now.

See yers around …
:party:

34

Elaboration on points two and three. I never meant to imply that mastering usage of the keys or other 19th century techniques would prevent one from playing irish music well, either. I just don’t think they’re necessary.

35

Well no, if you’re interested in the use of the simple system flute in the 19th century for what we know as western art music you probably shouldn’t ignore those people and their writings. But for anyone whose just interested in Irish traditonal music on the wooden flute it is of little relevance.

Once again this argument boils down to measuring one genre with the yardstick of another - something I find akin to a form of musical imperialism (or if given the benefit of the doubt, ignorance). I’m talking about implying not using keys “properly” as being “lazy”, or “missing music”. Or giving the same flack to traditional fiddlers for not moving out of the first position, when playing an instrument designed for 4 octaves or more. It is judging Irish traditional music through the terms of western art music, and has paid little consideration to the contexts of the musical genres to begin with.

It is as ridiculous as if jazz pianists were to complain that classical pianists lack innovation and spontaneity, after hearing no harmonic or melodic improvisation in a performance of Beethoven or Chopin. Or a traditional fiddler saying that classical musicians lack the nyaah and they should work on that when playing Paganini or Ysaye.

Yes I know from your repeated exultations of Chris Norman’s playing that you think very highly of him, and yes I think he’s a good flute player too. But statements like these say more about your understanding of the Irish traditional music than anything else

36

Very interesting thread. I hope you don’t mind my jumping in with a thought or two. :slight_smile:

I’m not sure that I can completely agree with this. While it’s certainly not necessary that you know the classical repertoire to play ITM, I do believe that an appreciation, from a technical standpoint, of flute music of the day, or for that matter of classical flute music today is important. Please notice that I said from a technical standpoint. How many times have we heard or recommended, “To gain control, you should practice playing softly. When you can do that well, you can play loudly as well.” or, “To get a good bottom D, practice playing in the upper register. When you can do that well, the bottom D will come of itself.” Granted these bits of advice do not mandate that we study Nicholson or anybody else, and certainly, there’s no need to study Nicholson to the exclusion of all else, or Chris Norman for that matter. I think that the important thing here is that by studying the players and music of the past, whether ITM or classical, and by working through some of the music, we become better players overall. And THAT is worth working on, regardless of the genre of music that you’re into.

Now, do I do that? Not yet, I’m afraid (ledger lines give me vertigo :boggle: ), although I do play some of my son’s clarinet music when he’s not around. :smiley: However, I intend to start, because this will make me a better player overall, and will give me better command of the flute itself. And THAT will make me better at ITM.

37

David, I agree with you about the 8-key flute. I agree with you about classical music. I agree with you about Chris Norman, Niall Keegan, peoples’ flabby lips, etc. So why, if we don’t have any grounds for disagreement, am I sitting here feeling pissed off after reading this post?

Must be your tone. Why don’t you just say what you have to say, without sounding so bloody pedantic all of the time? I rarely feel compelled to address this sort of thing, i.e. the ad hominem rather than the argument, but I feel it needs to be said: get off your high horse and be civil! You’re no smarter than the rest of us, no matter how much you’ve read. We don’t need to be talked down to, and you don’t need to do it to make a good point. Cheers,

Rob

38

it’s just NE US humor & general way, innit :smiley:

don’t mean nuttin’

39

Here we go again with the Political Correctness Police.

Rob, I feel this needs to be said: Get off your high horse and stop telling people here how they should communicate. Your opinions on the subject of communication style are no more valid than than anyone else’s here, no matter what you think. You are being hypocritical in suggesting others not talk down to anyone, yet that is exactly what you are doing to David - not that he needs me to defend him by any stretch. Rob, you don’t need to constantly foist your sensibilities onto the rest of us in order to contribute here.




Cheers :slight_smile:


Loren

40

No, but I’m certainly allowed to, aren’t I? They are, after all, my sensibilities, and I, as a member of the community, am permitted to foist as I see fit.

Cheers,

Rob