Newbie questions

Uilleann Pipes
1

I have recently taken an interest to the UPs. My parents, however, aren’t ready to cough up the money for me to get a starter set and a couple tutor books. They suggested I find out more information on them before they consider the idea.

From the FAQ that the forums have and reading through most of the threads and I think I get the basic idea of the pipes: bellows, bag, chanter, drones, regulators. But I’m still a little confused about anything more specific than that.

Is it possible to “add” drones to a set, or would they have to be made with the drones in mind (and is it possible to remove drones from a set and be playable without the drones on the set)? If so, is it something I could do or would I need to have someone do it for me?

Are chanters changeable with the bellow and bag, maybe have several chanters but just one set of bellow and bag?

Are all keys equally easy to learn, or are there some that are better for beginners?

Are there specific reeds for each kind of chanter/key?

I might have been misreading, but I think I saw keys referred to as “concert”, such as a “concert C”. Is this any different from a regular C?

Also, how are the pipes with maintenance? Do they require lots of looking after? Is it something that can I could easily learn and take care of it at home or would it be necessary to take it to a shop for everything that goes wrong?

And how much time would need to be invested to be moderately good at them? I plan to spend as much time with them if I happen to get a set, but how long should I need to expect to get somewhere? Last thing I want to do is spend $400 or $500 on a starter set and get discouraged expecting to be good faster than I should.

And lastly, would it be helpful to learn how to read music?

Sorry if this seems poorly organized, and thanks for any feedback.

2

Hi Npanus;

I’m going to preface this by saying that I am very much an amateur at the playing and maintaining of my pipes, but I think I can answer a few of your questions. Lots of people here have way more experience and expertise than I do, so they can all feel free to jump in if they want to. (Right, folks?)

Joe Kennedy made my half set and he said that yes, drones could be added to a practice set. As I understand it, if you want regulators at some time after that you’d have to send the drones into your maker to get them added. But it seems to me (and I’ve got a limited knowledge here) that a lot of practice chanters are intended to be a sort of introductory instrument. Prices for full sets are dear enough that (although this sounds a bit ridiculous) $5oo isn’t that much to spend … at least in comparison.

It doesn’t work that way. Most drones have an on/off switch just at the base of the stock (big round woody bit the drones come out of), so you just turn them off when you don’t want to play with them. (They’ll look cool, though, and they’re apparently great at tripping drunks.) Look at some of the shots on the ‘pictures of your pipes’ thread and you’ll see what I’m talking about. As well, the stock is physically tied into the bag, via a hole cut into said bag, so you wouldn’t want to bother taking them off. There’d be a big hole in the bag then, and you wouldn’t want that.

Umm… I don’t know. I guess you could do that, but I don’t know.

Do you mean keys physically attached to the chanter, or the keys that tunes are played in? Most of the tunes I have learned are in D or G, but I don’t know a lot about music notation and I’m not even sure if I understand what you’re asking.

Yes, again as I understand it, but I’m nearly absolutely certain. There are a frightening amount of threads here about the specifics of reedmaking, so if you’re interested in it, read away. (That was a pun. I’m sorry.)

Aaah… you got me there. I have, in fact, no clue.

Um.. Now I’m on shaky ground. My pipes are well-built but they are an instrument, and therefore - unlike an electric guitar - not indestructible. Not (he amended hastily) that electric guitars aren’t instruments. They just suck ass when bellows-blown. Anyway. You have to be careful with them as you would anything you’ve just spent stupid amounts of money on. I live in a cold climate and that’s something to think about for me. Cold generally equals dry here and if it gets really dry where you are you’ll most likely have troubles with the reed, for example. I’d say that if you ever need to take your set into a shop, it should be the maker’s shop. Hacksaws over a kitchen table with a knee and some cloth as a vise is right out. Most of the time unless something catastrophic has happened, your set should be fine. But make sure to ask your pipemaker what you should to with them about maintenance.

This is a tough question. I don’t know what ‘moderately good’ means to you. I’ve been practicing for about three years and I’m nowhere near what I think of as moderately good. But I also tend to raise the bar before I get there. The good thing about buying a good starter set is that if you suck at it then selling them shouldn’t be too hard and you will most likely get most of your money back. I think.

There’s debate about that. Take a look at www.uilleannpipestutor.com, there’s music notation and ABC format notation; as well Mick plays the tunes in mini-lesson form. I’ve noticed lately that I can kind of get the music notation from hearing the music.

I personally feel that hearing this kind of music, really listening and trying to figure out why piper X played that cut there in that tune will teach you more about playing the music than reading notation will. But I might change my mind in 6 months, so take that with a grain of salt. Most likely lots of other people here will have other ideas about this though. I’d suggest you talk to lots of people about piping, try to find someone who can give you lessons, listen to the music, go places it is played, and attend a Tionol when you can.

Other than that, welcome to Uilleann Piping. It’s a weird thing to strap yourself into an instrument and start pumping madly, but if you think you’d get into that kind of thing, then you’re at the right place to ask questions.

Talk to you later,

Mark

edited for bad spelling (Bad, Aaron, Bad!!)

3

H Npanus

The best thing for you to do is to Find a piper near you that can give you help and encouragement. You are embarking on a long term project full of joys and frustrations and the help of a more experienced player makes the journey far less difficult. (And a lot more fun)

David

4

Is it possible to “add” drones to a set, or would they have to be made with the drones in mind (and is it possible to remove drones from a set and be playable without the drones on the set)? If so, is it something I could do or would I need to have someone do it for me?

You can easily enough get a set of drones to add to the pipes later on. As Mark noted, removing them entirely isn’t possible without replacing the bag as well, but the drones have an on/off switch that covers most reasons you wouldn’t want them playing.

Are chanters changeable with the bellow and bag, maybe have several chanters but just one set of bellow and bag?

This is theoretically possible, but in practice not many poeple would do it. The reason for this is that once you’ve got past your first chanter, you’ll also want drones and regulators, and these are not interchangeable.

Are all keys equally easy to learn, or are there some that are better for beginners?

It’s normal for beginners to learn in the key of D, and probably the most sensible, as D is the lingua franca of piping and folk music in general. That said, there’s no law against it. All pipe music when wirtten is notated in D, regardless of the instrument itself, so there’s less confusion possible on that front, too.

Are there specific reeds for each kind of chanter/key?

Yes. Oh yes. You do get wonder-reeds that play in all chanters of all keys, and probably sweep the floor and cure hang-overs, but they’re pretty rare. Real people have to make them or buy them specially.

I might have been misreading, but I think I saw keys referred to as “concert”, such as a “concert C”. Is this any different from a regular C?

Concert pitch means that it’s the same pitch as recognised standards, ie, if two people are in concert D, they’re in tune. Usually sets in D are the only ones specifically made to be in concert pitch; flatter sets are often, though not always, made to whatever pitch the maker prefers.

Also, how are the pipes with maintenance? Do they require lots of looking after? Is it something that can I could easily learn and take care of it at home or would it be necessary to take it to a shop for everything that goes wrong?

A well-made set of pipes shouldn’t need major maintainance for some time. Small tasks, like hemping joints and so on you should expect to become pretty familiar with in time.

And how much time would need to be invested to be moderately good at them? I plan to spend as much time with them if I happen to get a set, but how long should I need to expect to get somewhere? Last thing I want to do is spend $400 or $500 on a starter set and get discouraged expecting to be good faster than I should.

You should definitely be thinking in terms of years and not months or weeks. In terms of time, it’s not so much how much as how often - if you can do ten minutes every day you will get on a lot faster than trying to cram it all in for a couple of hours twice a week.

You will find the initial stages the worst - you’ll be trying to make rub your stomach while patting your head, reading a book and reciting poetry all at once. Figuratively. If you can get your head down and get through this stage to the point where you are playing a couple of tunes and some basic embellishments, then you’ll be over the worst.

And lastly, would it be helpful to learn how to read music?

Without a doubt. If you learn from a decent teacher or a good tutor book, you’ll learn this along the way.

And as David says, find another piper to give you a hand - it will save hours and hours of frustrations.

Cheers,
Calum[/quote]

5

Npanus, What musical experiance do you have. I think if you are a complete beginner the fastest thing you can do to get started is to learn to play the whistle.

You will accomplish a number of things by doing this.

You’ll learn the fundalments of music.

You’ll learn tunes that you can play at sessions.

The whistle is very cheap (around $10 should be enough at first)

The fingering that you learn on the whistle is very close to the Uilleann pipes.

If you can learn a number of tunes on the whistle then you’ve proven to yourself that you are ready for the next step, which is to purchase a practice set. I learned about 4 or 5 tunes and said to myself one day (Its time).

Most if not all Bag pipers can play the whistle.

6

Hi DarthWeasel

I would agree with you about getting a whistle, I would say to get 2 whistles - a cheap D to start on and an inexpensive low D to get used to the finger spread and pipers grip - this will ease the transition to UPs.

David

7

Start saving up. You aren’t really hooked on pipes unless you are driven to get them on your own (parents will be encouraged to help you if the kid shows iniative, I am a parent).

I went to the grocery store and found a little plastic container that looked as if it might fit into the brass tube attached to the bag that my mainstock plugs into. A little bit of waxed thread wrapped around it made it fit firmly, so when I am in a session or just practicing/playing chanter, I just don’t put the drones on, but just plug the hole with the tupperware.

Yeah, I use the same bag and bellows for my concert pitched (or called a D set) half set and my flat (pitched to C) 3/4 set.

Could you rephrase the question? I don’t quite understand what you are asking. There are physical keys like on flutes and things like that, and there are musical keys, keys that fit my apartment lock…

Yep! Each one of these animals (especially the flat pitched sets) are completely different animals. However, the concert reeds seem to be more critical in their “recipie” for reeds than are the flat sets.

A can of worms here. I settled on this for my definition:

Sets pitched in D are the concert pitched pipes (when you finger an A, you are pretty close to 440 hz).

C pitched (next in popularity to the D sets), or actually any narrow bore pipes, are called “flat pipes”, and they usually play flatter pitches than concert or D pipes.

Most pipers that I have known, and I fall in this category as well, start with a D set but then are actually more drawn to the sound of the flat pipes so they order a C chanter (I don’t have the finances for the rest of my wants), then a B or Bb set. Beware of UPoA…

However, you can find Eb sets referred to as a flat sets too. Confused enough yet?

It’s mostly a matter of seeing that you don’t get any leaks. A scrap of leather or naugahide, some beeswax, piper’s wax and some thread or dental floss added or removed from the joints (tenons) as the wood swells and shrinks with the seasonal changes.

But then there are the reeds…

Does the music grab you? Pennywhistles are the usual “gateway drug” to the hard core drugs such as wooden flutes and uillean bagpipes. Beware of WHoA, it can cause whistles to be scattered all over the place.

Hmm.. I wonder if anybody makes a whistle with a back D…

I am pretty stubborn, so if I can’t outstubborn something in around 7 years, I give it up. You have youth on your side, so you would probably kick my inside of a year, given that you work about a half hour or so a day on the chanter.

Another can of worms. I can work out a tune using dots, but I learn much faster from hearing (aural learning or “by ear”. I never could get my ears to reach the chanter…) it played. Face to face with another musician is the best way, IMHO.

The only thing I can “read music” is in the treble cleff and the signature has one, two or three sharps in it.

Good luck!

BTW, I love the Clarke Original design with the black paint for whistle and play it much more than the high priced ones I have.

8

No willpower, huh? I resisted the call of the pipes for 14 years, thinking how cool it was to have a whistle handy. I was ready for a jam any time, any where, just whip it out of the glove compartment or off the table sitting next to me.

It is an all weather instrument too. When the reeds give up the ghost, the whistles carry on.

And you can still play when you fall down from the effects of certain drinks..

9

Adding drones to a starter set is always possible. A pipemaker or other experienced person will need to add a second hole to the bag, and tie the drones in for you.

Are chanters changeable with the bellow and bag, maybe have several chanters but just one set of bellow and bag?

Yes, this is common. However as has been pointed out, once you get to the point where you are comfortable with drones, you are likely to want drones in each key, and in general drones are not interchangeable. Tuning a set of drones to something other than the key they were “intended” to play in is possible, but in practice it doesn’t work so well, you probably would have to swap reeds as well, so few people actually attempt it.

Chanters are expensive; start with one :wink:

Are all keys equally easy to learn, or are there some that are better for beginners?

Many people feel that “flat pitch” pipes (that is, those pitched lower than the standard/common ‘D’) are easier to play. They can be a joy to learn, but because they are not in the ‘standard’ key, they can be hard to use in a class or with a tutorial recording. Every chanter needs its own reed, and reeds are rarely, if ever, interchangeable between chanters. They aren’t available in shops (mostly), and have to be hand made for your instrument.

Are there specific reeds for each kind of chanter/key?

I might have been misreading, but I think I saw keys referred to as “concert”, such as a “concert C”. Is this any different from a regular C?

The name “concert pitch” pipes refer to pipes pitched in ‘D’, that is, the basic scale on the concert pitch pipes is the D major scale. You can also play a G major scale (and relative minors, etc.) without keys.

Pipes require more maintenance than most instruments, but a starter set should not require a tremendous amount of maintenance. The reed is the main source of trouble, and at least in the early stages it’s best to leave reed adjustments to someone with more experience.

Pipes are probably more frustrating and more rewarding than most instruments. They are as hard as you want them to be, and probably a little harder :slight_smile: Personally I think playing any instrument really well is a challenge. But with pipes I think you really have to want to do it - if you want to do it, and are patient, I’m sure you will succeed.

You don’t need to learn to read music, but learning to listen to music carefully is important :slight_smile:

best regards,

Bill

10

Wow, thanks to everyone who replied. I really didn’t expect this big a response.

I’ve been playing guitar for a couple years, and my dad has a small collection of whistles that I play with everyonce in a while, so music wouldn’t be a completely new experience. With the whistles, though, I wasn’t happy with blowing into an instrument, since that seemed to get spit everywhere.

It’s not so much not having the money as it is my parents don’t want to toss money into something that will end up collecting dust in the next couple of months. Time for practicing isn’t an issue, as I always have anywhere from a half and hour to four hours of free time everyday. Hopefully I’ll be able to get a starter set ordered in the next few months.

Thanks again.

11

Good luck to you Npanus.

When and if you purchase a practice set, remember that it really does take dedication to learn this instrument, and it will seem quite difficult and akward at first.

Try and locate an experienced piper in your area, spend some time with them if possible, listening, looking, asking questions… this would certainly go a long way toward your understanding of the instrument before you lay your fingers upon one.

All the best!


-JES.

12

It’s not spit, that’s music juice..

13

EEEeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww!!! :open_mouth: