moving up from a dixon 3pc polymer

Irish Flute
1

Hi,

I’ve been playing a Dixon 3pc polymer for several years. Mainly play on my own, primarily tunes that I make up myself, and, more recently, been trying to move into a more Irish style- that’s been tricky as I’m not into sessions and don’t know any other flute players, so very limited feedback.

I’m thinking of getting a new flute- probably a polymer as I love the fact that they’re virtually indestructable and don’t need cleaning/taking apart every time you touch them :slight_smile:

However, I’m not ruling out a wood flute- I suspect I’d be quite appreciative of the feel and tradition of a wooden instrument- although the need to swab/clean/dismantle it does put me off: for example, i bought a beginners keyed (boem) flute and eventually pretty much ceased to use it because of having to dismantle it after every play (I did try leaving it assembled on a flute stand, but the day came when two pieces got stuck together and took some ingenuity to seperate them).

Essentially, I like to just pick up my Dixon when and whenever i feel like it, play it/try out some musicak idea, put it down and get on with whatever else I’m doing etc: polymer flutes are ideal for that.

The final factor is that, if possible, i want to get the flute from the UK- I would, and have, ordered from the US/worldwide, but don’t like the extra hassle of random import duties (and, in the UK, increasingly the UK end of the courier service now like to charge an extra ‘customs clearance’ charge, which is over and above the actual customs charge).

So, the polymer options which I’ve selected due to good reviews on this board and elsewhere are-

Copley, Forbes, M&E, Seerey- roughly in that order from the reviews?

and, a more recent model with less comments/reviews (but which have been mostly favourable ), the gary Somers delrins

http://www.somers-flutes.com/models-pratten-rudall-boehm

The options in wood are-

casey burns folk flute, has excellent reviews, and, a relative newcomer, the Fred Rose - http://www.fredrose.co.uk/

So, in terms of my preferences, i believe only the Fred Rose is in the UK- the M&E seems to be Ireland and I’m not sure if, for importing into the UK, that counts as UK??

In the polymers, the Gary Somers stands out a little because, although it’s not UK, it’s price at $370 (for the 5pc model with tuning slide) is considerably lower than the others. The main issue with it is the low number of reviews.

I did notice Doug Tipple offered a favourable comment recently on this board- though I believe he said the intonation was ‘OK’, and it would be good, were he to read this thread, if he could clarify that.

(Incidently, I am aware of the Tipple flutes and that they are very well thought of for the excellent price, however, at this time, I am looking for a conical bore flute)

Finally, when it comes to the polymers, another choice is 3pc (copley, forbes, dixon) or 5pc with the foot joint with the two holes (seerer, M&E, Somers).

My current Dixon is 3pc and I’ve always liked the fact that it’s compact and light. Also, many seem to think that, in acoustic terms, the foot joint is nothing more than a historical curiousity which adds nothing to the sound and, some claim, even weakens it i.e. it’s the flute equivalent of an appendix. Then again, others disagree with that- I have read threads which cover this issue, but they are few in number.

Personally, I’ve always felt that 3pc is the one to go for, but, recently, the look of the 5pc flutes has started to appeal, so, I’m pretty open to either and willing to be swayed one way or the other by any convincing arguments.

One further thought- I’m not interested in a wooden flute with a metal tuning slide as I’ve read convincing arguments that they are the cause of splits as the years go by, but, when it comes to polymer, that isn’t an issue and, if I’m going for polymer, I think I’d prefer one with a slide.

This is just my initial thoughts on the matter- any comments and advice are very welcome: it may be a good idea for me to post a video/soundclip of my playing and I’ll attempt to do so if anyone thinks that will help in giving relevant advice.

Thanks,

David

2

AFAIK it’s not the tuning slide that’s the big problem, but the fully lined head. My Sam Murray flute doesnt have a fully lined head, and i know of other flute makers who also aren’t keen on fully lined heads.
Btw, it’s Seery (Des Seery, flute maker) :slight_smile:

3

Importing from an EU country into UK will not cause you any extra import duties or taxes, so buying from Ireland is fine.

With regards to care requirements, leaving the flute assembled etc:
seems you need a polymer flute. BUT: the Delrin flutes some makers offer are heavier than you current Dixon I believe. Delrin is a heavier material even than blackwood. So you need to compromise somewhere.

As regards no metal tuning slide: that rules out the student flutes made by Dominic Allan in Somerset, UK, which are only £165.

4

I haven’t played flutes by Rose or Summers, but I’ve played the rest. If I were shopping, I’d get a Forbes or Copley (Delrin or wood). Both of these will feel big (in terms of bore and finger hole size), compared to your Dixon, and they’ll deliver great tone and volume.

The Forbes is maybe a bit bigger than the Copley, if memory serves, and it’s very resonant and responsive. Reminiscent of an Olwell Pratten. The Copley is perhaps a bit warmer/sweeter sounding…but that’s all rather subjective, and it’s been about two years since I played a Forbes. Regardless, they’re both good flutes and will serve you well for years to come.

5

Will you ever want keys?

6

I own and play a Dixon 3pc. I owned/played a Seery for several years. I own a couple M&E’s (original and R&R). I’ve played the Forbes delrin. I own and play a Copley in ABW and have played the delrin too.

They are all different flutes. So I’d think it depends on what you are looking for and what fits you and suggest if at all possible that you get out and try a few of these. You’ll find differences in embouchure, power,etc.

I would rate the Copley and the Forbes as being on a higher level than the M&E and Seery though.

Design wise the Forbes and Seery have more in common with each other, IMO - big and bold. The Forbes has the edge for playability, but that’s just my opinion. I didn’t fit well with the Seery but it is a good flute when it all comes together.

The Dixon is a handy flute and I have no trouble paying it along with others without a tuning slide. But it is quiet. I’d hold on to it to use as a rough and ready flute (ok, a beater).

The M&E isn’t much of a step up,IMO, although the R&R can offer some different tone colors.

I personally like the Copley flutes but that shouldn’t matter to you. The Copley three piece delrin is lightweight but a little larger in diameter than the Dixon but it would feel similar enough in your hands. The embouchure is worlds different but easy to get on with, IME. I like the more traditional embouchure cut but you should try both and decide for yourself. Dave makes a five piece in delrin too which should be enough flute for the long run for many players.

Feadoggie

7

No.

8

That seems to be the consensus of many. In the old days it seemed that the choice was between the M&E and the Seery, but since the Copley and Forbes have been around most seem to rate them as better than the M&E/Seery.

The thing I’ve never understood from reading those opinions, is why.

For some it seems to be about the bigger bore/holes leading to a bigger sound, but that would seem to be about the old distinction between the Pratten and Rudall types, yet I was under the impression that the Seery was a Pratten type with a big sound?

So, what specifically makes the Forbes and Copley superior to a Seery?

If it was that some people just preferred a 3pc flute to a 5pc then clearly a Seery’s going to be lower on the list, but I don’t think that that’s the case.

That’s interesting. From what I’ve read over the years I thought the M&E was generally considered a biggish step up. From what you say about the tone colours I wonder if you mean it’s not a big step up in terms of volume?

Or, are there other ways in which it’s not much of a step up?

9

That’s the problem- the flutes I’m interested in finding more out about are precisely the 2 for which there is minimal info/reviews- the Rose and the Somers.

From all I’ve read about the Forbes and the Copley- there’s little doubt that they are really suberb flutes.

In fact, were they available in the UK, and, were the price a little more competitive (closer to the Somers) I’m sure I’d have one by now.

(Barring the 5pc vs 3pc issue, which is the other thing I’d like to get some opinions on, as there’s nothing conclusive from what I’ve read to now)

10

Cheers for the info on EU countries not having import duties.

Just googled dominic allen flutes and found-
http://www.djallan.co.uk/page3.htm

Probably not what I’m looking for but the price is good and it’s always nice to see a UK maker that I’d not heard of.

11

ah, Forbes and Copley

BTW: Forbes is a Pratten style, Copley is not. Both are excellent.

12

Hey Dave,

I’ve repeatedly recommended the FRED ROSE flute! :thumbsup:

I think it is the “biggest bang for the buck in wooden flutes.”

I’ve had 2 or 3 of them in the past and they were consistently good (tone and tuning), loud enough and easy players.

I love the simple 2-piece design and they are among the lightest of Irish Flutes. Mr. Rose is also a very amiable chap! Oh, I do slightly prefer his newer Rosewood version over his older (lighter) Bubbinga (gorgeous wood) version.
(Just to qualify my recommendation, I’ve owned over 100 different Irish Flutes.)

Happy Hunting!

13

I think a huge amount of this is the player. The Dixon can sound wonderful…although quieter than the others listed…in the hands of the right player. I really like my M&E R&R ebonite and do consider it a significant step up (although it is not light - it’s one heavy flute). I’ve played a couple of Copleys now, and owned a Seery in the past (as well as a Dixon 3 piece).

I think it’s truly personal preference. Any chance you can get to a session and try other player’s flutes? Most flute players I now are happy to give you a chance to try their flute.

Eric