Mostly OT: Mad Cow Disease and Whistle Playing

I think it’s more important to feel GREAT during pregnacy, regardless of strict vegetarianism, because a happy mother makes for a happier child. I have a friend who was a vegetarian for most of her life, but when she acquired hypoglycemia, her dietary needs suddenly changed a lot. She craves chicken now all the time. She becomes disoriented if she eats too many carbos.

My sister went through a disturbing time (vocationally and geographically) while she was pregant with her first child. That child cried ALL the time, and is still an emotional basket case. Oh of course other things are involved, but she was very contented with the next and the child showed it.

Yes, trust the wisdom of the body…it will mostly tell you what it needs. There are times that it rebels though, and when it really shouldn’t.

[quote="JessieK]
Yeah, organics are expensive, but they’re really good. Tomatoes have become a serious staple for me lately.[/quote]

I love that they actually have taste! I was in the supermarket last night behind a gal purchasing vine-ripened, organic tomatoes and a few other items. The tomatoes alone (about 6 I think) came to over 9 bucks, and the look on her face was shock!

We’re so used to and have been indoctrinated to expect everything as cheap as possible. But I’m slowly coming around to the idea that you get what you pay for. (As in “Free advice is worth what you paid for it.”)

But I digress. Enjoy those tomatoes and enjoy the holiday season!

this world would sure be a nicer place. less prisons, less sick people,…
it would be a good investment for any government if they help creating this too,
like much more holidays for pregnant women.

and trust the wisdom of the body. we’re capable of more than we think…

Yes, and more holidays for the partners of pregnant women!

:slight_smile:

My milk doesn’t. Most milk doesn’t anymore. Check the label, they go out of their way to tell you that it doesn’t with few exceptions. If you are not sure, call the store where you buy it or check the label for the bottling plant. But throwing that claim around is not accurate.

As my father is a rancher and exec with the National Cattleman’s Beef Association, I will likely hear a lot at Christmas dinner about this. To the rancher’s detriment, if you are a beef eater, the price is about to drop, drop, drop after a long run of high prices.

My outrage, and I will express this, believe me, is what the hell they are doing slaughtering a sick cow! That @#$%es off the Weekender. I anticipate the answer will be for pet food or glue/tallow type of uses but I will find out, I hope.

Stay away from brains (I don’t know who eats em anyway) and cook everything correctly and enjoy cheap steaks while it lasts. And I don’t think the Canadian thing has been played any differently. I heard the initial report and now we have this one. Watch for a while before you judge that there is some kind of preferential treatment.

I will say this: if traded off for higher prices, American ranchers would love for you to be preferential about your beef, to want to know where it was raised etc. GATT and Nafta have resulted in international availability of cheap beef grown under questionable conditions, and the major packers suck as much profit as they can from whereever they get it. The producer is the lowest on the totem pole frankly. My dad attempted, with a few others, to start a California Grass Fed Beef cooperative, to give the customers a shot at avoiding feedlots, which look and smell worse than they really are. Frankly, there are just finishing off the fattening of the cattle by a few weeks of grain but the concentration of the animals, the inevitable mud, drainage of said, etc makes for an aesthetically displeasing landmark.

Grass -fed beef is leaner, tastes different and requires an expensive education process to sell to supermarket buyers. I don’t know if it will ever fly. Prior to feedlots or at least the technique of final fattening with grains prior to slaughter, beef was most likely stewed or moist-cooked, otherwise the steaks were toothsome if not cooked exactly right. The higher fat content allows the cook more leeway now but as many of the healthfolk will point out, its not that good for ya, compared to game meats or just leaner ag meats.

Thanks, Doc, for note of sanity. It didn’t have to be hijacked by the tofu-stuffers, but was nevertheless.

PS: If a tomato smells like a tomato buy it. Even if its from a greenhouse. I enjoy salad year round because of them. Other hybrids that I enjoy include Gala apples, orange-flesh honeydew etc. Considering Biosphere and other predicted looks at the planet, growing things under “artficial” conditions seems to be part of our future.

Quote @ JessieK

Come on, Cran and other vegetarians…this is potentially valuable information for carnivores. Please don’t turn this into a debate.

We didn’t. The first time somebody mentions killing and eating the animals is when it turns into a debate.

Well, you could say that others continued something that you started, but voicing one side of any belief system is not a debate. Arguing the opposite side, is.

Quote @ JessieK

Well, you could say that others continued something that you started, but voicing one side of any belief system is not a debate. Arguing the opposite side, is.

Point well taken. :slight_smile:

However, when people feel as strongly about the slaughter of animals and their use to satisfy human wants, as many people do, you can’t expect them all to remain silent at every mention of animal abuse.

edited for spelling

I haven’t read this thread fully but I live in a place where mad cows are rampant.

I was wondering though about that tomato grown under artificial conditions. I grow tomatos organically in a Polytunnel greenhouse, in fact I jsut finished the last few of the summer’s harvest. I grow cumcumbers, courgettes [zuchini for you yanks], aubergine [eggplant] and all sort of other stuff also under ‘artificial conditions’. There’s a reality here that unless you create these conditions, there’s nothing for you to grow but potatos [either blight resistant hybrids, heavily sprayed ones or risk loosing you’re crop early july when the wheather turns damp and warm. This year we were luckly though for the first time in years and lost very few], onions and cabbages. Sometimes you really need to go artificial for the sake of variety.

Also, all things are relative, over here people would tend to avoid genetically modified foods while you guys in the US don’t seem to worry about that at all.

There is a rat Robin. It is called money.

The reason we banned beef imports from Great Britain and, more recently, Canada was not due to a real health threat to US citizens but rather that Japan, who gobbles up a third of our beef exports, (can you say millions and millions of dollars?) told the US that if we imported from those countries they would not import from us.

The other problem is that there was a percieved danger by the American consumers. They didn’t want it so the government bent to the collective (though ill-informed) public will.

Lincoln said it best: “In a democracy the people get exactly the kind of government they deserve.”

If the American people want a government that acts on principle and fact rather than public whim or hysteria they need to start electing principled, intelligent leaders rather than good-looking slick talkers (George Bush being the notable exception as he is neither good looking nor a slick talker :laughing: )

Doc

P.S. I’m sorry I mentioned George Bush. If you want to bash Bush or sing his praises please start your own thread.

On this thread we’re talking about slobbering and circling cows not presidents. :smiley:

Doc

Well, there is a time and place for everything, as I have learned. At times I have felt very strongly opposed to many of the strongly-held beliefs of some of our members, but a public community isn’t the place to try to make people feel inferior or guilty or otherwise hate themselves. Unless, of course, they have different taste in whistles or flutes. :wink:

I think the meat industry abuses animals plenty, and death is a welcome relief to many of the animals. We are an over-populated meat-eating race, and the industry isn’t going to go away. I deal with it by trying not to think about it too much (against my nature, admittedly).

I agree, Jessie.

Yes, were were designed to be vegetarians: Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the trees in the garden. They didn’t eat meat. Not until God had to cover their sin did meat-eating enter the picture. Part of our fallen state.

Where did you get this? They ate fruit & veggies, yes, but humans have these things called canines, they are only found in meat-eating animals. Do you really think God said “oops, now they’ve done and screwed everything up!” and gave us some makeshift fix so we could eat meat (and for no reason, what does “covering sin” have to do with anything)?

I’m sorry, but I think either God in His foreknowledge originally designed us to be well able to eat meat, or if He didn’t put it in the original design, then whatever redesign of humanity He may have done for this (canines) would also include any physiological change required to accompany it and handle it well. He’s not lazy and knows exactly what will affect us in what way.

If anything death only happened because of sin anyway, so obviously that curse had more of an affect on humanity than just “oh, we arent vegatarians anymore” and most-likely makes what we eat almost superfluous as Jesus and Paul both directly addressed the issue with no qualms for eating meat aside from offending a brothers conscience.

However, I would agree with you on many processed foods. We often take what God made good and totally screw it up and make it incredibly unhealthy. God designed us to be able to digest certain things and all, but He also gave us brains to figure out the basic nutrition we need.

And I think it’s obvious that when we use those brains to remove nutritional value out of food and replace it with garbage, well we bring health issues upon ourselves. Likewise with the way our bodies seem made to walk everywhere, and we have managed to minimize all of that most basic exercise in our culture.

It’s not the only way to get it.

Some time ago Modern Medicine discovered a way to almost end Dwarfism. Extracting Pituitary hormone ACTH and giving it to young people who would likely spend the rest of their lives hearing jokes like “Da Plane Boss” or looking for parts in “Lord of Rings”.

Later one, medical science had another breakthrough. They learned how make growth hormone synthetically. However, 11,000 of us came before that breakthrough. And we received the natural growth hormone. Since that time a handful of people have died from Cruetzfeld-Jacobs Disease, the human form of Mad-Cow Disease. It can remain dormant for up to 30 years, so if you have it you may be a walking time bomb.
Since there almost no way of telling whether I or others are carrying prions or not, we are forbidden by federal law to give blood. This is only way known at this time that it can be passed to other humans.

If CDJ (Cruetzfeld-Jacobs Disease) ever got out of control it would AIDS look like a common cold case. Hopefully this will not happen.

Nobody knows who got the bad doses, there is no way of telling until it is too late. However, it has been far better thing for me rather than being ridiculed for being a dwarf. Happily, I have grown to 5 foot 5 1/2 inches (when you’re small the 1/2 counts) thanks to the NIH.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/endo/pubs/creutz/creutz.htm

One other thing, CJD was discovered once in Africa (or maybe it was S.America) among Cannibalist people, they didn’t know what it was and when Cannibalism stopped, it went away.

The key to this disease in animals is to not feed them from remains of other animals of the same species, it always seems to lead to this.

Prions can mutate easily and know one knows what sets them off. They remain inert in a coiled or curled-up form, some reaction opens a few of them and they send off Biochemical signals and the rest open and trouble begins.

Yeah, that disease is called Kuru…very similar to mad cow and CJD. It was a real problem among African cannibals who felt that eating your dead relatives (especially the brain) would keep them alive in you (not to mention saving a lot of money for the funeral banquet. :smiley: ).

Anyway, there’s another good safety tip; don’t eat under-cooked relatives! :boggle:

Doc

Jessie

You need to find yourself a good block of feta cheese. When my wife was pregnant she really went for that.


I think that millions of years of evolution have placed us in the food chain as omnivors. But if folks want to give up being a carnivore, I think that’s pretty cool too…as long as food-evangelism does not creep into it. Then it’s just tedious.

Now I’m snickering! This apopeared in today’s NY TIMES…

"WASHINGTON – Meat from a Holstein sick with mad cow disease could have reached retail markets in eight states and one territory, but poses no health risk, Agriculture Department officials said yesterday.

“‘The recalled meat represents essentially zero risk to consumers,’ said Dr. Kenneth Petersen, of the USDA’s food safety agency…”

Am I missing something here? How can tainted meat NOT pose a risk? If there is zero risk, why the recall?

Hmmmm…

Absolutely. Thorough cooking’s the ticket. BTW, a terrine is a very elegant way to present your departed. I myself have longed to be served à la Bourguignon. :smiley:

Umm…FWIW, the kuru incident took place somewhere in New Guinea.

:laughing: how 'bout serving yourself up shish kabob marinade, nano? Your safe here, I’m destined to end up a vegetable.

Just so long as I’m well done, and the veggie bits are drizzled with good quality olive oil, of course. Rosemary stalks for skewers are both tasty and festive. :smiley:

I think a marinade of red wine, Worcestershire sauce, pineapple juice and fresh garlic would be just right, don’t you?