Maybe stupid question.

Whistle
1

I know very little actual theory. I know a c recorder starts on middle c and my d whistle starts on D. I tried to write down each scale for each whislte as I just bought a Low eflat whistle. If I play all the notes on the low Eflat the sound is eflat so the next hole up will be f then g then a flat? I went and bought a scales and arpegio book to help but now am as clear as mud. I get the feeling I should have stuck to half holing flats and sharps on my Tony Dixon D.Can any one make this clearer for me?

2

Key of Eb: Eb-F-G-G#-Bb-C-D-Eb

3

On 2002-03-11 20:15, Squeezer wrote:
Key of Eb: Eb-F-G-G#-Bb-C-D-Eb

Better to say

Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb-c-d-eb

G# and Ab are the same note (in modern music), but Ab fits better in an Eb-major scale because that has three flats. (There’s always either flats or sharps, they’re not mixed.)

Easy rule of thumb:
G-major: 1#, every whole step up add two sharps (e.g. A-major: 3#)
F-major: 1b, every whole step down add two flats (eg. Eb-major: 3b)

We’ll cover the Circle of Fifth next week. :wink:

4

Check out the “Deciphering Whistle Keys” page at the C&F site. It explains how whistle keys work and has a great chart that shows fingerings for whistles in all the common keys. Here’s a link:
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/whistlekeys.html

Looking at the chart you will see that the D major scale on the D whistle has the same fingerings as the E-flat major scale on the E-flat whistle. So, you don’t have to know the E-flat whistle scales (E-flat, A-flat, B-flat) or a different set of fingerings. You just have to know your D whistle scales (D, G, A). Use the D fingerings on the E-flat whistle, and automagically you are playing in E-flat.

If you want them, I can send you ABC files or GIFs that show the D whistle scales and all the major scales, with sharps and flats annotated. I can also add whistle tablature (fingerings).

5

Since your question has been answered, I won’t belabor that, however if you are interested in learning more try “Practical Theory Complete” by Sandy Feldstein. I’ve purchased mine through Amazon. It starts at the basics, moves through the Circle of Fifths and then even a little beyond into harmony and building chords. I’ve used it as a teaching tool with a 7, 10 and 12 y.o. and it has worked well. It’s designed in workbook format so worked particularly well when handing out homework.

Erik

6

A good question, but a common one too:
The whole point of whistles in different keys is to make things easier, much like a capo on a guitar- same fingerings in a different place put you in a different key.
On a whistle, learn to play and read music on a D whistle, in the key of G (& E minor) and D (& B minor). Memorize the tunes. Then to play in a different key, use the “D” fingerings you just memorized on the whistles in different keys. If you already play recorder (which is chromatic/plays in all keys), use that to figure out the tune if it is not in G/Eminor or D/Bminor, or as you say, half hole on the D whistle. To try to learnto read music in every key on the different whistles is an awful lot of work and not necessary.

7

On a whistle, learn to play and read music on a D whistle, in the key of G (& E minor) and D (& B minor).

Are these the same things - i.e. D and B minor and G and E minor. Can someone explain.

Doh!

8

On 2002-03-12 15:40, WhistlingGypsy wrote:
Are these the same things - i.e. D and B minor and G and E minor. Can someone explain.

Doh!

They are sort of the same thing. Well, they are related.

Here, take your D major scale: It goes

D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D.

If you look at the intervals between the notes, you get this (“1” means one whole tone up, “0.5” a half-tone):

1 - 1 - 0.5 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0.5

As you see, two intervals on the scale are half-tones. That is the same for every major scale and in order to get a major scale starting on a different note, you have to use sharps and flats to get the half-tone intervals in the right place. D major has two sharps, F-major has 1 flat, and F# major has six sharps (ugh…).

You produce a minor scale by putting the half-tone intervals in different spots in the scale (this has nothing to do with what note you start on, do you follow? :slight_smile: ). For instance, here is E-minor, written out as a scale:

E - F# - G - A - B - C - D - E

These are the intervals for a minor scale:

1 - 0.5 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 0.5 - 1

As you can see, the half-tone intervals are in a different place. That means that major and minor scales starting on the same note are going to have different sharps or flats. G major has 1 sharp, but G minor has 2 flats.

Each major scale has a related minor scale. They are related because they have the same number or sharps or flats. Of course they are going to start on different notes because the half-tone intervals have to be in different places. And, surprise, surprise, B-minor is related to D-major (both have two sharps), just as E-minor is related to G-major (both have one sharp.

Look at this little illustration:

E - F# - G - A - B - C - D - E - F# - G
|---------e-minor------------|
         |----------g-major-----------|

Once you understand that you can create different kinds of scales by leaving the number of sharps and flats alone but starting on a different note, you have also understood those mysterious “modes”. Major and minor scales are just two out of seven possible modes (test question: why are there seven modes?).

For instance, if you want the Dorian mode, you start one note above the note that you would start on for a major scale (also called the Ionian mode). If you use two sharps (F# and C#) you get D-major (Ionian) and E Dorian and B minor (Aeolian), and incidentally A Myxolydian which you will also see in IrTrd. (The other modes don’t crop up much.) Test question: Where are the half-tone intervals in a Dorian scale?

Caveat: There are actually different kinds of minor, with different half-tone intervals going up and down, but nothing to worry about for IrTrad purposes, really.

Hope this helps. It certainly got longer than I though it would. :roll:

9

Nice illustration, Bloomfield. I never visualized it like that before. Let’s do it for D major and B minor, too.

B - C# - D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D
|---------B minor-------------|
         |----------D major------------|
10

Thanks, Tornton.

I just thought of something that I should probably add. It may be too obvious for words, but then again not.

Sharps and flats get added in a certain order. You don’t just pick out an D# and put it on the staff. Here is the order in which sharps get added:

F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E# (yikes!), B#

So “two sharps” always means F# and C#. Four sharps means F#, C#, G#, D#… (Handy little trick to figure out a key signature: take the last # and go up one half-tone to get the major scale. E.g.: Three sharps, the last one is G#, that makes A-major. WATCH IT: this doesn’t tell you whether a tune actually is in A-major. It may well be in F#-minor, B-Dorian, or E-myxolydian. Fun, eh?) :wink:

Here is the order for flats:

Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb

OK. You can either remember the order, or you can forget about it and be glad that you play whistle. Chances are whoever wrote the music that you secretly learn from put the right sharps (or flats, heaven forbid) down.

:slight_smile:

/bloomfield

[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-03-12 17:34 ]

11

The short answer is G & E minor have one sharp(#) and D & B minor have 2 sharps. Find music with one or two sharps at the beginning of the line, preferably that doesn’t go below low D (the lowest note you can play on your D whistle)and you will be roaring along before you know it!

12

On 2002-03-12 17:41, Whistlepeg wrote:
The short answer is …

Ok, ok, so I talk too much. :roll: :wink:

13

Hey Bloom,
I don’t think you talk too much at all! I thought you had a great explanation.

14

:slight_smile:

Cheers, 'Peg.

15

Wow. Thanks everybody for the help. I went and bought a huge scales and arpegio book yesterday. Waste of money me thinks. Let me see if I have this right. I am playing a D whistle. Lets say Jamie Allen a Scottish tune. gabbbabg in eflat I would still play the same fingering but it would be g aflat bflat? Stupid as I can sit at a keyboard and pick out the correct notes to watch the whistle keys. However I have a form of MS and the brain doesn’t cipher some things correctly. Incidentally the Howard Low Eflat is interesting but the holes are large and quite a stretch. I like my Shaw Low D better.

[ This Message was edited by: selkie on 2002-03-12 19:56 ]

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On 2002-03-12 19:55, selkie wrote:
… Let me see if I have this right. I am playing a D whistle. Lets say Jamie Allen a Scottish tune. gabbbabg in eflat I would still play the same fingering but it would be g aflat bflat? …

Almost. Since you go from a D whistle to an Eb whistle, which is one half-tone up, every note also comes up one half-tone. So instead of sounding GABBABG on the D whistle, it now sounds Ab Bb C C Bb C Ab.

So, when you transpose you have to go up or down however far you are transposing (like one half-tone up) AND you have to figure out how many sharps or flats you need.

But here is the great thing about the whistle: Learn it in on the D whistle, pick up the Eb and play it exactly the same and you never have to worry about what the notes are called. Then pick up a G whistle and play it in yet another key. Best thing is, you get to buy lots of whistles in lots of keys. :wink: