Collings are great. More importantly, it sounded best to you. What more do you need to know?
Also, a good Collings will definitely hold a decent resale value.
Thanks. What I wonder is this:
the next down model, the MT,
does it sound as good as the Mt2.
One ad says it sounds the same but
hasn’t all the cosmetic features.
The folks at the store say the
finish is better and improves the
sound.
Heaven knows the truth, but it’s about
1000 dollars difference.
Sorry, in way over my head
Also, short of the session from hell,
is this going to cut it volume-wise?
If folks don’t know the answers, that’s OK.
Hi Jim,
Now you’re talking about real mandolins. Collings is one of the hot names out there today. A top quality instrument, they hold their value well. How much any given instrument will appreciate in value (or even if it will) is impossible to predict, but a quick check of the bigger Internet stores shows that used ones don’t hang around long.
The advantage you have is that it’s in your local shop and you can try it several times before you buy it. Remember what I said about listening from a distance.
When you get up to a certain level in mandolins, you start to see large price increases for small improvements in sound. Things like fancy decorations start costing more while the sound doesn’t change. It’s a “point of diminishing return” thing. The MT is a very popular model. Whether the extra grand for the MT-2 is worth it is up to you.
The finish will affect the tone, no question. If you were going to play through a pickup, I would say don’t spend on the finish (you wouldn’t hear it through a pickup), but if you plan to go strictly acoustic, you’ll hear the difference.
The Collings MT/MT-2 is the exact kind of mandolin Rick and I were talking about (A style, F-holes, best value for the dollar, etc.). It has a hand-tuned soundboard and matched back. That’s the expensive, critical step for volume that you don’t get in cheap mandos. It will cut through a session as well as any mandolin could. But remember, it’s a mandolin, not a banjo! You’ll still have to pick hard to compete in really noisy sessions.
With the higher-end mandolins you have to judge every piece of wood on its own merits. These are not the assembly line Kentuckys and Epiphones we were talking about three pages back. If you like the sound and the volume impresses you from a distance, that’s really all there is to it.
Well, it sure is a beautiful sounding instrument.
Kind of amazing!
A thousand thanks, fellas.
I’ll keep on thinking.
Thank God stores are closed for two days!
May have to sell a kidney.
But remember Jim, since you’re biggest concern is having enough volume, check that from a distance. If that particular mando doesn’t project, you may as well stick with your Big Muddy, because you won’t be solving your problem. Don’t buy it just because it’s a Collings.
Let me share a story to aid your perspective.
I have a good friend who bought a Collings custom F style. He paid $8,400. It is a magnificent piece of art. It’s not just a mandolin, it’s a sculpture with strings. When you play it, it envelopes you in a sound that can only be described as angelic.
From 15 feet away you may as well be watchng a silent movie of somebody playing a mandolin. For all its beauty, price, and name, it has the projection of a brick. In a recording studio or amplified on stage it is the finest mandolin I’ve ever played and I would give my eye teeth for it, but in acoustic session my $1000 mandolin plays circles around it.
Don’t buy it just because it’s a Collings. It must address your needs or it is of no value.
The fellow I’m talking with at the store (I’ve known these
guys for years) is a mandolinist, a good one.
He took me aside about six months ago and taught
me to flat pick, which led to buying the Big Muddy
three months later, which is leading…
A real serpent in the garden, you see.
All of the people working there
are themselves serious musicians.
He tells me this has the volume to do the work
in a session, and it sounds that way under the
ear. However I will definitely take your advice
and listen to it from a distance.
I’m afraid it’s beginning to occur to me
what 3150 amounts to…What am I
doing contemplating spending thousands
of dollars on a mandolin? I play flute,
principally. that’s not going to change.
Only it’s so beautiful and I seem to
be picking up mandolin very easily…
Much to think about!
Thanks again, much appreciated, Jim
Oh please don’t misunderstand Jim. I’m not insulting your friends at the music store. If we weren’t concerned for one another we wouldn’t spend hours typing.
It’s just that my friend spent a fortune to get a session instrument and ended up with a recording/stage instrument instead. Don’t make that mistake. It is a lot of money!
Jim, from what you say about your friend at the music store, those guys certainly get to see and play many more mandos than I do, and maybe more than Tim.
If I were in your position I think I’d take most heed of the guy with the wide hands-on experience. The man is your friend, you are a regular customer - and you know where to find them if they steer you wrong. Add to that the fact that no one will ever have a problem moving on a Collings they don’t want, and I’d say you can be fairly confident.
If you were to get the Collings to a session and find that it has trouble competing, I’d say the odds are that the problem is most likely to be that mandolins in general would be out-gunned in that situation rather than the Collings or any other individual mando specifically. I’ve never seen a mandolin that could fight off two banjos, a squeezebox and a brace of bodhran players as well as all the other instruments! The laws of physics apply even to expensive mandos.
That said, I would never let that stop me from playing mando ina session or a jam. It’s just such a great instrument.
As I say, if I were in your position I’d probably go with the guidance of the mando player at the store, especially if he were a friend.
Yes, thanks, I will check myself about volume.
These folks are wishing to sell me something.
I understand entirely what everybody is saying.
Suppose it’s about as loud as mandolins are likely to
be. And suppose I’m not in the session from hell,
but a reasonable session operating at moderate
volume. Will it be heard?
I’m in an acoustic jam with sometimes 20 musicians,
mostly guitars, basses, sometimes fiddles, me on flute
and whistle, sometimes a banjo. The leader plays
an Alvarez mandolin (scroll type). I can hear him.
They have a Vega tenor banjo at the store for 925, by the way.
I’m sure that’s audible! But much less lovely
than the mandolins, to my ear.
Volume aside, the sheer quality of the Collings MT2 sound
is just lovely, lovely. It sounds like the mandolin
equivalent of a great violin.
The kick-myself-mando-that-i-let-get-away was a Collings MF in Evanston, Illinois. There were several other Collings i A-B’d it with – all were really nice but that MF was quite a few cuts above. Later a friend got a used Collings MF that wasn’t as good as the one i tried.
Alas, $4k was beyond my means. But if you find one that speaks to you that much, and you have the dough, i’d say go for it. It’s usually pretty easy to re-sell a Collings; Webers, etc, (even Gibsons nowadays) usually take a big hit in price on the used market, but Collings generally hold their value well.
OK I will report back if I buy.
Raising dineros…
Sorry, Jim. Didn’t spot that question before, and now I have it’s hard to answer. All I can say is that my cheap, but good quality, F mando gets heard in a jam consisting of double bass, bodhran/djembe, banjo, 1-3 guitars (variable) and occasional sax/clarinet. It also gets heard at a small Irish session I guest in when I’m on holiday in Ireland, but that is usually only 1 guitar, 1 banjo, 1 melodeon, 1 bodhran and 1 tin whistle.
I don’t hear it myself, partly because you have to be in front of an f-hole mando to appreciate its projection, and partly because my hearing is not the best. Everyone else tells me they hear it ok.
I do tend to use a heavy pick and dig in.
So, to sum up, in a moderately (but not terrifically) loud session,
with a banjo, a fiddle or two, a guitar or two, a whistle, a flute or two
a bodhran, a concertina, nobody is willing to say that
a good f-hole mandolin, played well and with the intent
of being heard,
will definitely be audible. That’s an iffy
proposition, anyhow.
I confess I’ve always considered F-hole
mandolins among the more audible instruments, at
least in the venues in which I’ve heard
and played with them. Not the loudest
(e.g. tenor banjo, fiddle) but up there. They seem to generate
a good deal of volume and especially to ‘cut through’
very well.
Of course we are often ‘taking turns’
in our acoustic jam. Certainly different
from an ITM session.
Like I said, mine does ok, but there are no fiddles where I play. Violins occupy the same frequency space as mandolin, and are louder. As ITM involves a lot of unison melody playing… well…
It’s variables like that that make me reluctant to guarantee your audibility. The idea of someone spending Collings money because we said they’d be fine…? Nah.
I think it would be heard. But I ain’t puting that in writing.
Ah…
OK, thanks.
I appreciate your hesitance.
It sounds as though mandolin
isn’t a wise choice if you are
wanting to use it to play in sessions of at least
moderate volume, especially
with fiddle(s) present.
Hi Jim,
I’m afraid I’ve gotten a bit lost in all that’s been said among the threads. Just briefly, could you please tell your specific aversion to the tenor banjo. After everything I’ve read of your needs and wants, I keep coming back to the TB as your best shot. What is it you don’t like about the banjo?
I have no aversion to it. I’ve heard these in sessions
a fair amount. They’re interesting. I’m not immensely
turned on by these, either, though I’ve sometimes
been most impressed by the sort of syncopated
sound they lend ITM. When played well. The
one I’ve played was a big, heavy muffah…
But very good.
Everything’s OK, gang. Appreciate all this candor
and also the careful and measured responses.
I just need to let the computer crunch for awhile.
We went out and walked for well over an hour this
morning and I haven’t actually woken up since.
As we did it yesterday too, I didn’t wake up yesterday,
either.
10/4, as they used to say.
OK, my wife and I went to Music Folk this evening
and checked out the Collings MT2.
It projects very well and it’s very loud.
I played it and then
Colin, who works there and plays (and teaches) mandolin
and fiddle, played it for us, too. It doesn’t
‘back down’ or break up when you really
start digging. It just keeps getting louder.
Colin says he can drown out
a fiddle. It’s percussive, it rings and sings…
An utterly professional mandolin.
It became obvious that this is far more mando
than I will ever use, my pathetic talents wasted
on it, like a newbie fiddler given a Stradivarius.
So I did the natural thing and bought it. That
is, we gave them 100 bucks to hold it till
Saturday, when we’ll pick it up.
They will give me a good trade in on the
Big Muddy, which is a charming and likeable
basic mandolin made with
simplicity and integrity.
I remain devoted to the flute and it’s
a relief to have an instrument that
isn’t a bitch to play. I guess i’ll be
up to speed in a year or two.
Best to all and thanks, too,
for looking out for me, Jim
Congratulations Jim.
You are both blessed and doomed at a stroke. Life will not be the same.
There is a mandolin version of WhOA, known as MAS. I think you’ve found a way to immunise against it - buy a staggeringly good instrument early on.
Happy for you. 