Offset holes again:
On a low F whistle I end up with L1 and L2 a little offset to the right (I play with my right hand on the bottom) and L3 a little further offset to the right.
Makes the whistle much easier and more importantly much more comfortable to play
As I said before the offset amount is going to vary with the player, and I found it very hard to figure out the offset without actually playing the instrument (just putting my fingers on a blank tube did not work).
No, I can picture it - very interesting!
Possibly beyond my patience and construction skills though (and I don’t have the materials for that at present either). Not quite as low tech, as you say 
I suggest using Pete Kosel’s “Flutomat” calculator program and compare your measurements.
http://www.cwo.com/~ph_kosel/flutomat.html
Or you can download the free tinwhistle calculator program by our C&F Hero “Dr Phill”
http://sourceforge.net/projects/twjcalc
Luthiers Rule!
I finally got around to making my own Guido Low Tech whistle. I choose to make an F since I don’t have one. The first was a total disaster. On the second I fumbled my way around and when I tested the low D (actually an F on the F whistle but I’ll use D fingerings) it sounded.. perfect! I could jump up an octave just fine and even hit the 3rd D too. So I was really excited. I couldn’t believe my whistle was going to sound so good.
Then I made the bottom whole and tested it out. The E almost wouldn’t play. It’s very quiet. I kept fooling around with the fipple block, the window, etc. and I couldn’t improve it. How can the D play perfect and the E not play well? I decided to continue and made the hole on the E finger and then tested the F. Similar to the E. It requires a lot of breath and it sounds breathy. I kept fooling around for an hour and couldn’t improve it so I drilled the rest of the holes. In the end I can play the first octave but the higher up I go the more breathy it sounds, and still that low E is weak. I tested the second octave and I can’t really play anything on the 2nd past the D. I have to breath VERY hard and it sounds way too breathy.
I have no idea where I went wrong. I would like to make another one so I’d like to figure out what went wrong first, if I can.
I have a few other questions that arose during my construction:
- when you cut the 45 degree angle for the flipple block and the cap, how do you get it to be the same on both? I cut the cap first at 45 angle which also cut the whistle body, and then I put the cap around my wood block and then tried to cut it. It’s not perfect but close. However if I want to make a new head for it, I’m not sure how I can get exactly that same angle.
I’m going to use the D plans/instructions for these two questions:
- does the 4mm include the labium?
Measure 30 mm from one end of the whistle body along the axis, and mark this distance;
then draw two parallel lines 8 mm or 10 mm apart. Saw off a 30×8 mm (or 30×10 mm)
section. This slot will become the windway; the shorter side (which is somehow tricky to cut)
will become the lip. It’s very important that the slot sides be straight. Do not exceed these
dimensions.
In the diagram we see the window is 4mm wide and the cap is 30mm. In the directions it says to cut the window 30mm. If we do this wouldn’t the cap completely cover the window? I think I’m missing something here.
I am sure I goofed something up along the way so I’ll try again.
What kind of pipe are you using for your F, and what is the bore size? Guido’s measurements will work well if you are using pipe with the same diameter, but if it’s not, then the measurements for hole placements will be off. A strong bell F note but weak G probably indicates the hole is too far up the body, i.e. it should be closer to the bell end.
When I made my first whistles I also noticed the discrepency in the plans regarding the cap/window length. The window length (4mm in the picture you clipped above) should be seen as separate from the cap length. So, if you make a 30mm cap and fipple block, and want a 4mm window length, you need to cut a 34mm slot in the body (or put another way, if you cut a 30mm slot for the windway, you’ll need a 26mm block and cap, with the extra 4mm providing the window). The labium length is not given a separate measurement in the diagram; it begins where the window ends.
As for getting the cap and block to the same dimensions, I just try for an approximate match and let the sandpaper take it from there.
What is the diameter of the first hole? Seonachan may be right that the first hole is too far up the body, and (to keep it in tune) too small.
I assume you are using the dimensions for the “low whistle in F (Fa)” on page 13 of the plans. Note that they show a window length of 8 mm, rather than 4, for the F whistle. That measurement is the entire open length of the window, from the edge of the fipple and windway cover (which should be exactly aligned, BTW), and the leading edge of the labium. This is a very important dimension, and the beauty of Guido’s design is that you can move the fipple and windway cover back and forth to adjust it until you find the sweet spot that suits you best.
It may go without saying, but you might also want to check for ragged edges on the holes. Smooth and (unlike the fipple and labium) slightly rounded edges are good.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Seonachan -
I was able to locate the exact same dimensions on the pipe so that rules out problems due to differing dimensions.
I will go back and remeasure the lowest hole to make sure it’s in the right place. I can get an E in tune but it just doesn’t sound right. Very breathy and weak. Totally different than the D. The D sounded perfect, that’s why I was so disappointed when it didn’t turn out well.
Thanks for the confirmation on the window length in the measurements. Probably an oversight.
Tunborough -
Maybe I made a mistake here but I didn’t measure the diameter to make it match Guido’s. I used his length to the hole and I put my hole in the same spot and just made it larger until it was in tune. Is that ok??
I’ll check the D hole but I’ve filed it and used sandpaper so it’s pretty smooth. What’s weird is ALL the holes are like that. ALL notes (except low D) sound fuzzy, breathy, and weak. With the holes closed Low D still plays great. So I think it has something to do with the holes. This helps me to narrow it down. I assume if the Low D (actually an F on the F whistle) sounds great then my window, labium, fipple block, etc. are all correct. I may try to make another body to see if it turns out better.
I gave my feedback to guido, he said I asked some common questions and he’ll answer them by updating his guide. So it looks like my experience will benefit others as well.
Just checked, my low D hole is smaller than Guido’s measurement (9mm). Mine was a lot smaller. I’m going to make it bigger and see how it goes. Will try to get it close to 9mm. I think I know what happened. When I cut the body I planned to cut it longer than I needed but somehow I cut it very close and when I got the low D working (which plays low F) it was slightly sharp. So from then on the holes were too small I think, cause if i made them bigger the whistle would be too sharp. This would explain it. And smaller holes makes it sound not as good.
I kept working on my whistle and I think I made it the best I can. It is very breathy and requires a ton of breath. I have to blow really hard. Here is what it sounds like:
http://www.box.net/shared/ox4repb4z7iqrpqzi31m
I guess that’s not bad for my first attempt, what do you think? I wonder how well you all did on your first one? Did your second & third get a lot better?
I plan to make another one and see if I can do a better job. It was quite fun and I learned a lot. I had an idea: I will measure off the window on a piece of paper and then lay that paper on the PVC tube and mark off the window dimensions. With a 25mm diameter pipe, it’s hard to measure the window due to the curvature of the pipe. I’ll also do that for the holes.
Thanks for the feedback guys!
If you have made a mistake and cut the bore too small, you can correct this by reducing the bore end hole(Cap it and drill a hole through the cap). This simulates extending borelength. Simple “rules of thumb” for borelength…Keep the bore diameter/borelength ratio between 1/26 and 1/32. Keep the voicing window ratio around 1/2 of internal bore diameter (L + W) /2 = window diameter. A window depth of 1/4th inch to 5/8ths inches is middle ground. (attach a ring-plate to increase window depth.
@cunparis
though whistles appear fairly simple getting one to work well is a combination of many compromises and probably a bit of luck to be close at the start - thus your likely hood of creating a good whistle goes up tremendously if you start with some plans and you are lucky!
If you have a strong bell note and the second octave does not want to play it is possible that the bore of the tube you are using is to big.
My advice would be to drill all the holes, one drill size smaller than suggested (I’m assuming you are using some plans or a calculator) before trying to get the mouthpiece to work. Now get the mouth piece to play (adjust the window height and labium etc) throughout the whole range of the whistle - do NOT worry about tuning. You will probably find the bell note is a bit weak - that is normal. Now starting at the bottom tune the instrument by enlarging holes as needed - if you need to make a hole smaller a little tape over the top or bottom of the hole is a good temporary fix. Now make another whistle and apply what you have learned, and another and …
If you stop and think about all the permutations of bore diameters, hole sizes/positions/undercutting, window sizes, wind way height/length/geometry perturbations of the bore and so on and consider that to some extent they all interact it becomes obvious that a simple whistle is not quite so simple!
I (tentatively) second highwood’s suggestion that the large bore size may be giving you trouble.
You mentioned that the diameter of your F whistle is 25mm, and also that it is the same dimensions as Guido’s, so I assume the 25mm is the outer diameter, and that the inner diameter is more like 22mm. (If the inner diameter is 25mm, then it’s definitely too big.)
This is a tricky size for an F, imo. I tried a couple F’s with similar-sized pipe (1" CPVC and 3/4" thin-walled PVC, which are actually closer to 23mm), and both times I had to make the holes so big that the whistle was largely unplayable. It would have probably worked out with different measurements for hole placements than what Guido’s plans advise, but in the end I had much better luck making a low F from an alto-sized pipe (3/4" CPVC in this case, 18mm bore). OTOH, I believe others have had better results from the larger bore, as Guido obviously has (he originally had plans for an alto F but apparently discarded them in favor of the tenor size).
It all comes down to trial and error, but if you’re repeatedly frustrated trying to make an F from that size pipe, I would recommend either making a lower key (e.g. low D), or finding a slightly smaller-bored pipe (around 18-20mm would probably work well).
Thanks for the comment on bore size. I was surprised that the F & D whistles have the same bore size (in Guido’s plans) because they’re quite different in length. I measured my MK Low D and it’s 22cm bore, and obviously aluminum is thinner than PVC. So the D bore seems correct which would make the F bore a compromise.
The next smaller pipe I have is what Guido used for his Alto G. I thought if I made an F with that it’d be very long and skinny. I think they may have had a pipe in between the two but they were out.
The other factor is that I have to be able to find not only the pipe but also the wood in the same diameter (or close) to make the fipple block.
So it seems I picked a key that may not be easiest to make. I prefer not to make a low D since I already have one. And I have a Guido G too. So I was really interested in making my own F. Partly to have a new key, partly to have something in between G & F to ease learning piper’s grip. At least these were my justifications! hehe
I have plenty of pipe & wood so I’ll give it another try and see what happens. Now that I’ve tried one I can really appreciate the skill that goes into making these. Guido has been making them for several years at least and has probably made hundreds. So it’s normal that mine aren’t going to compare so well.
Not to discourage you, but I’ve been making GG Low Fs for a while. I don’t understand what the difficulty is. The F is a nice compromise between the Low G, which is not really much lower than a high D, and a Low D, where there might be a stretch for the fingers.
If the whistle is too breathy, make the windway narrower. You have quite a lot of play in this. Snr G suggests about 12mm width if I recall. You can narrow this down to 8mm or less, or increase to as wide as the pipe will stand - maybe 15mm. A wider windway will increase volume (and volume of breath) and narrower will reduce it. In fact the difference in loudness is not so significant as far as I can tell. You can also reduce the chamfer on the fipple. The whistle will play with an unchamfered whistle.
One factor which isn’t obvious in achieving the upper octaves is the size of the fingering holes. It is human nature to make the holes smaller than you need, in case you have to widen them. This has a big impact on the sound produced in the upper octave.
I suggest you make a “throw-away” experimental pipe, and drill experimental holes of different sizes, just to see what works. Covering the existing holes with sticky-tape allows you to drill more. This helped me a lot.
(regarding my original thread)
So, something finally clicked in me with piper’s grip … I thought I had been doing it right before, but for some reason I picked up my first homemade low whistle last night and tried again. Suddenly the holes aren’t so badly placed after all 
I spent almost 2 hours working on my 2nd low F whistle. Low D sounded great. Drilled the E hole. Sounded weak and was slightly sharp. I enlarged to hole more thinking that’s what was making it weak (I was around 8mm and Guido’s plans call for 9mm). So I enlarged it to 9mm and now the Low E is so sharp it’s almost the next half step up. And it’s still weak.
I know I am not good at making things but I thought I’d give it a try. After 4 hours I think I will give up. I hate to give up but I prefer to play the ones I do have rather than spend time trying to make one. I have to give Guido credit, his whistles look and play very professionally. Mine looks like a child made it compared to his. If I really want a low F I think I’ll just buy one.
I think I’m the only person who failed to make a playable PVC whistle. 
If you got a slightly sharp note any enlargement of the open hole(s) will will make the note even sharper. That’s a consequence of the first rule of tuning: you can shift a hole upwards by making it smaller and downwards by making it bigger, for the same note frequency. You really should try a hole location calculator.
You may find to get a more powerful E (sixth hole note) by carefully smoothing the hole edges (inner and outer) (as well as the window edges).
The 8mm window length sounds a bit large to me. I expect this to produce a more breathy tone, with more air requirement. I would be more comfortable with 5 or 6 mm window length, and 12 or 13 mm window width for a low F. I’d aim for an inner bore diameter of about 19 or 20 mm, if you can find a suitable tube. But you need to recalculate all hole positions when changing the diameter.