If you are satisfied that it plays in tune than I would take your word for it! Thanks!
I played a few alba whistles a while ago regular sop D, Q1 and a C on loan from Judy and a Q1 low D on tour. It seemed like the pitched varied a little on all of them depending on the amount of air. Also, they all have a lot of air in the voice. Personally those characteristics don’t suite me but if you like it then I am happy for you!
The difference with a Goldie is that once it is up to pressure, the pitch doesn’t vary at all. The expressiveness comes out in that you can push it just a little harder (or lean into it) and get the volume to go up. If someone at your local session has an Overton you might be able to give it a test drive just to see what the difference is. If they let you take it home for a week then that is even better!
The downside of a Goldie is that they are especially hard to warm up in the winter and the whistle is a little flat until it is thoroughly warmed up. As soon as you lay it down it will go cold again! It takes a little getting use to the pressure and it churps a little inbetween notes if your technique is off. I think that over the years Collin has tried to lighten up on the backpressure to make them easier to play. I have heard that the original Bernard Overtons have more backpressure and more of a challenge to play. Never personally played one myself!
I would thoroughly recommend getting a Susato to tide you over, since the tuning should be pretty spot on throughout the range of the instrument.
I would save up for a tunable Goldie F. Just discuss your requirements with Colin before ordering and then he will also give you a choice of instruments before sending one out to you. Exquisite tone!
I can’t see how an Alba can be compared to a Goldie/Overton. An MK or a Burke are about as good with different characteristics but the Alba is only a stepping stone IMHO. I have to say that my Overton F takes almost no warming up, with a few seconds blowing hard with the sound hole covered it’s in perfect pitch and easy to play right up to the third octave f. Good luck with the Alba though, if you’re getting started I’m sure it’ll see you through for a while.
I was lucky to get hold of a GFM Low F back when Chuck Tilbury was making whistles. The tone is fairly solid, with a touch of airiness (so not as solid as a Burke, but nowhere as airy as a Shaw). The tuning is spot-on across both octaves, and I have no trouble hitting third-octave harmonics. It’s been perfect for all those Flook tunes, and whenever I’m accompanying our female vocalist.
However, I am a huge fan of my Burke session D, so I’m keen to get my hands on a Burke low F.
I would dearly love to try all those different whistles !!!
For those whistles/brands I own I have a feeling and idea of what to expect: Alba, Dixon, Freeman tweaked ones, Howard (not my cup of tea yet), Susatos (don’t play them much anymore).
All the to me unknown whistle makes stay, naturally, in a parallel and oddly theoretical universe - I have no real experience of the potentials of those whistles (or rather ME with them !) yet. I couldn’t even specify to a maker what I really want in my Low F whistle before I have found out what is possible. Well … I’m still a sort of beginner.
Anyway, very interesting to learn from and with you !!!
All the best to you and greetings around the globe,
Ellen
Ellen, all the different kinds of whistles you have played will have little significance for choosing a low F. Only low F whistles you’ve tried will give you some ideas of what low F whistles can be. And the differences between makers are significant. Even individual low Fs from the same maker can be quite different.
In order to get any idea of what you may prefer in a low F whistle, can you tell if you like the tone more pure, more flute like, or rather more “hissy”, or dirty, “windy” (some call it “chiffy”, but chiff in a whistle is something else really)?
Then: do you like to have lots of power, and can you support that with good breath, or would you settle for less power and more comfortable breath requirements?
And would you want to use your finger pads to cover the holes, or would you prefer to use piper’s grip? You say you have smallish hands: that can be an important factor for the hole placement especially in a low F. In order to use the pads on the end of your fingers I would advise for a player with small hands to have the sixth (bottom) hole offset on low F and lower whistles, to make it easier to cover it.
And would you like a thumb hole to get a strong and spot on C nat (using D whistle terminology) or rather not?
These are some of the questions I would ask a player if he is interested to have a custom low F build by me, and I imagine other makers offering custom build whistles do the same. A lot is possible when designing and building a whistle, but preferences need to be settled, and thereby choices been made, and some things clearly ruled out.
Like if you want a powerful low F with a strong bottom end you need to be prepared to learn to breathe more strongly, like a flute player. But with a good design one should still be able to play softly as well, at least in the bottom octave. At least this is important to me. I like to push the dynamic possibilities in my whistles because I like more dynamic expression. This may not be needed for much of Irish dance music though.
Ahhh, Hans, your questions clear the fog considerably !!! Thank you !
So I could approach a whistle maker now stating that my dream Low F (at this stage in life) would be:
more flute like in tone, or rather a mixture of “flute like” and “windy” - does that make sense ??
power … hm, I’d like a strong bottom end and what you call “dynamic possibilities”, but my breathing is not quite up to it yet, I think (but I’m learning).
So I think it will be (comfortable to) medium power.
pipers grip for the lower hand, bottom hole not offset
(but I pray that the holes might not be too big or stretched out. I have a Howard Low E I compare to, a tricky beast to me …)
no thumb hole, I think (but I would like to try that sometimes out of curiosity)
That might be a start then, right ?
I’m feeling better already !
Now, the sensitive choice of a maker … without having held or played the unknown names a curiously detached decision.
But perhaps some of you play a Low F whistle that comes close to what I described above and can (even if repeatedly ) recommend makers ?
Again, thank you all for your help.
Summer-Winter greetings to all of you,
Ellen
I know Low D’s are a different type of whistle compared to a Low F but it will give you an idea how these whistles can sound so similar!
Domnahl Na Gruen
Goldie
Burke
Ian Lambe
I’m not familiar with Domnahl Na Gruen’s whistles but I’ve heard postive reports.
Colin Goldie and Ian Lambe’s whistles are very similar in design and construction so will give a similar tone too. The windways are narrow and require a good bit of back pressure to play so the can be quite breathy but very strong in tone.
Burke low whistles have a softer, slightly sweeter tone than the others you listed.
In my research as a whistle maker I find that the whistles that have a flat windway/fipple design (Lambe, Goldie, Overton, Hardy, etc) have a breathier tone than the whistles that have the curved windway/fipple design (Burke, Reyburn, Susato, MK)
Now that’s a very general rule and there are many more factors to tone creation than just whether the windway is flat or curved.
** moderately big holes (even for piper’s grip)
Big holes = big bore = big sound
Again thats a bit of a generalisation too but a wide bore whistles should have good size holes to be responsive and have a clear tone.
I hope the above info doesn’t confuse you even more…
For me, to look with your help at some things from the point of an instrument maker helps very much to understand the … hm, ‘physique’ & physics of the whistle. So no, I’m not more confused than before (which is confused enough ) - rather more convinced that I can’t go wrong with any of those whistles. At this stage in my whistle learning each one of them will get me moving a big step forward, I’m sure .
And to all of you out there,
thank you very much for your very helpful inputs and experience sharing.
It’s always a real pleasure to find help and support here.
Jim,
I don’t know the first tune but the second is An Londubh or The Blackbird, no relation to the set dance by the same name.
Its also known as George Rowleys Blackbird. He was a fiddle player from Leitrim who lived in Dublin through the 1930’s +
Theres a beautiful recording of the late Denis (Donnacha) O’Brien playing it some where online.
His dad, Dinny, heard it from him later in his life (Georges that is).
Ellen
At this stage in my whistle learning each one of them will get me moving a big step forward
Yes, you won’t go wrong with any of those whistle makers!
Best of luck and be sure to let us all know how you get on.
I thought the same having tried out various whistles. But why?
Or is it because of other factors? I found that the way the fipple window and the tone holes are finished makes a huge difference to the tone and the breathyness of it. Another big factor is the window dimension: width, length and height. And every maker has some personal preferences there.
In my own design I choose to use a curved windway precisely to get a sweeter less breathy tone. And use big and smooth tone holes for more power and dynamic possibilities and easier half-holing of semi tones. I also tune the whistle just, not equal tempered (unless someone asks for this specifically) for a sweeter sound.
One side effect of this is a more finger friendly tonehole layout: especially the distance between hole four and five is bigger, because the F# (using D whistle notation) in equal temperament is sharper than in just intonation.
I thought the same having tried out various whistles. But why?
The basic reason is that when you have air coming from a flat windway to a flat blade into a circular tube the air gets knocked around a bit and there’s a little turbulance created and thus a breathies tone.
Or is it because of other factors? I found that the way the fipple window and the tone holes are finished makes a huge difference to the tone and the breathyness of it. Another big factor is the window dimension: width, length and height. And every maker has some personal preferences there.
Your right here too.
Window size is crucial as is shape and size and angle of the ramp below the window.
Also any rough edge at all from where the air enters the whistle to where it leaves it has to be smooth to ensure a good strong tone.
.
!