Looking for Praise and Worship songs

If a church can afford it AND if that church is not “liturgical”. If it is traditional (eg Catholic) church using hymns (not juse P&W) material by the folk/contemporary composers of the last 30 years, then one of the other companies should be used, because CCLI doesn’t cover much of this (for example, the St Louis “jesuits”, much Marty Haugen and Bernadette Farrell).

Those who are interested may like to read through this blurb that I’ve written and used elsewhere (warning, it’s kinda long, those who aren’t interested, tune out now!).

NB a later post said: “making tapes was legal, but now we want to make CDs and it’s not” - sorry, you just didn’t know that the tapes were illegal. If CDs are illegal (without appropriate licencing) in your country, then so are tapes, DVDs, etc etc etc.

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There is an international convention, implemented in many countrys’ copyright law, that allows any piece of music to be performed within a worship service without any copyright considerations or performance licensing needed.

However this only applies within the service: if music is used (either live or canned) before or after the service, or piped into the foyer, or played at the wedding reception in the hall (etc) then the VENUE needs an appropriate performance licence. These can be purchased from Performing Rights Organisations (PROs) like APRA (Australasian Performing Rights Association), BMI, ASCAP etc.

Commercial use (eg performing pieces at a public concert for which tickets are sold) requires yet another type of performance licence. This must be secured for each performance, but is generally also handled by the PROs.

Also, churches usually want their congregation join in the songs. If everyone knows the lyrics and tune, then it’s just a big “performance”. But typically they don’t, so the church needs to show the words, and maybe the notation. Previously churches purchased hymn books, so the publishers sorted out copyright and the fee was included in the price. But when technology provided cheapish photocopying, overhead projectors and then data-projectors, churches started showing words and sometimes notation, without having a book for each person. Initially, they were breaking the law, so publishers complained and perhaps even sued.

Enter CCLI, and subsequently other church copyright organisations (CCO’s). For a modest annual fee, you don’t need to deal with the administrative and financial nightmare of copyright compliance–for printed copies. Instead, the CCO negotiate’s with copyright owners for the right to represent them.

The best marketed CCO is, CCLI a privately owned company founded in the US in 1988, which focusses on the needs of the evangelical/pentecostal/praise-and-worship type churches. But there are others, eg Word of Life in Australisia, which focus on the needs of the more liturgical/traditional churches, and OneLicence which is an off-shoot of GIA Publiciations.

Churches buy licences from CCO’s that which allow projection of words/notation, and photocopying music (provided a minimum number of copies have been purchased). Typically one of the conditions is a return saying which song-words etc were displayed, how often and/or how many people were there, and these returns are used to calculate payments to composers and publishers.

However, there are still some things that some churches do that aren’t covered by most of the common licences, including CCLI. Basically, if your church does anything more than just singing the songs on Sunday, you’ll need additional licenses: mechanical licenses if your services are recorded on tape or CD (though CCLI covers distribution of these, up to 115% of your church’s license size class), synchronization licenses if you produce a video that contains a copyrighted song, and let’s not even go into the horrific issues if your music makes its way onto the Internet–some companies like Word Music don’t allow their music online at all.

Some other miscellaneous notes about restrictions of the licences:

  • You may not alter the lyrics of a song or the tune (melody or harmony)
  • You may not make arrangements of the music (even if no published version exists, or if the publication is out of print.
  • Rehearsal tapes, CDs etc are not covered by CCLI and therefore require a mechanical license

You are so going to get smited. I am not standing anywhere near you. I can’t wait to tell my brother that one. He’s a priest.

Regarding the Catholic Hymns and Jesuit and Marty Haugen stuff, our folk group just transposes songs to simpler keys. It’s either that or someone buys me a boatload of whistles and flutes. The music is already transposed for guitar, our electric keyboard has a tranpose feature and I just transpose in my head.

You’ve hit on the greatest incentive for whistling in church - so many different keys! My whistle-bag contains the following (and all have been used in worship music):

Low D (Chieftain)
Low E (Hoover)
Mezzo G (actually, a bamboo flute)
Mezzo A (Hoover and tweaked Shaw)
Mezzo Bb (Generation)
C (Clarke Original and Walton’s)
D (Clarke Original)
Eb (Generation nickel with Hoover Whitecap)
E (Jubilee)
F (Jubilee)
Amon Olorin NAF, F# and G pentatonic
Paul Jones cedar NAF in G pentatonic

Accounting for cross-fingerings, relative minors, etc, I can pretty much pick up and play with anything from four flats to five sharps. When that fails, I just sing…

Mark
(No, I don’t have problem with WhOA. I have no problem at all. I’m perfectly happy with all my whistles. Besides, it’s doin’ the Lord’s work, innit?)

I play a Wind Controller at my congregation. We have a few who like the change the key too often and the Wind Controller takes care of that problem. The pianist has even thrown F# minor at us a few time.

A lot of people start out playing melodies and a notes from the chords, what really seasons the music is to learn little licks or rifts. Play pieces of the melody but not clear though and sometimes holding notes while another instrument plays.

A good post that illustrates the problem and pitfalls with CCLI nicely. Churches pay money to an organisation so they think they’ve covered all the copyright and performing issues, when in fact they’ve just paid some money to someone to appease their conscience. Show me one music group that doesn’t alter harmonies to tunes. And how many churches have the correct licence to allow them to play music from CDs before, during or after the service? I’d guess not many.

Oh, and if anyone’s interested, here’s something else with little to do with whistling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CtjMpN9hhg

Caution - may contain yak.

Oh, and if anyone’s interested, here’s something else with little to do with whistling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CtjMpN9hhg >

A guy at my church who spent 20+ years as a missionary in Ethiopia teaching textiles, spins for a hobby. That yak fleece would have already been turned to yarn and he’d be wearing it. He once showed me some yarn he made from poodle fur that was as strong as kevlar!
Flutes/whistles made from shredded/epoxied $50 bills! I’d buy one… :smiley:

Oh, and if anyone’s interested, here’s something else with little to do with whistling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CtjMpN9hhg >

A guy at my church who spent 20+ years as a missionary in Ethiopia teaching textiles, spins for a hobby. That yak fleece would have already been turned to yarn and he’d be wearing it. He once showed me some yarn he made from poodle fur that was as strong as kevlar!
Flutes/whistles made from shredded/epoxied $50 bills! I’d buy one… :smiley:

Bullet proof poodles? Now there’s an idea..

Yeah - they’re great for hitting the high notes.
groans

Yeah - they’re great for hitting the high notes.
groans

:laughing: :smiley:

kinda defeats the point, I think…

Almost. Churches pay money to the copyright organisation to minimise the likelihood of them being prosecuted by a publisher or similar. It doesn’t totally remove the chance (as you say, they don’t always meet all the conditions - eg our licence at home let me make photocopies of sheet music, which technically I had to shred after the service, even if this mean I’d make exactly the same copies again next week … yeah, right, I did that all the time! :wink: ) But it does mean that if a publisher wants to make an example of someone, they’re more likely to pick on some other church.

In industry, we’d call it risk-minimisation.

Also, in most countries, you don’t need a licence to pay CDs during the serivce. Before and after, yes, but not during.

I’m loving this thread–

Hymns that sound really beautiful on the whistle:
Be Thou My Vision
All Creatures of Our God and King
A Mighty Fortress is Our God
Praise Ye the Lord, the Almighty
I Sing the Mighty Power of God

I played Praise to the Lord, the Almighty for our Sunday night people while they sang. And I didn’t mess it up!

You should all check out this book: “Then Sings My Soul; 150 of the World’s Greatest Hymn Stories” by Robert J Morgan, by Nelson publishing. They not only have some of the oldest and greatest hymns (older really rocks on the whistle) but the stories behind the authors of each one! Fascinating reading and the music is on the opposite page from the story!
Who could ask for more!

You might like this:
http://www.essentialchristian.com/product_info.php?products_id=25459
The Celtic Roots & Rhythms Box Set
ICC1021
£14.67
Anita Haigh & Nick Haigh
“Husband and wife duo Nick & Anita Haigh combine their impressive musical and vocal talents on this box set of their much-loved and respected Celtic Roots & Rhythms series. Mixing worship songs, airs and dance tunes in traditional Celtic styles, with rich acoustic textures and fiddle playing, these songs form the base for thought-provoking lyrics and crystal-clear vocals. Three CDs of songs that give authentic expression to a spiritual journey of faith and worship, rooted in our Celtic spiritual inheritance”

Click on the sample tracks - there’s some low whistle on “pilgrim”…

BTW. Please, guys, give links! If you know some good version of the hymns you mention somewhere in youtube - give them! I’m not going to play that for praise and worship, but would be happy to add something “different” from ITM to my tunebook.