I find reels easier to pick up by ear, and to play. To me, they are more fun to play as well.
Getting the phrasing, the “lift”, on jigs is much more difficult for me, as Peter says.
As far as beginner listening goes, I just didn’t really get most reels until just recently. I’d listen to them, and think, “Yup, that’s a lotta notes, played really really fast.” The only exception was Mary Bergin – yeah, she plays fast, but her phrasing makes all those rapid notes make sense. So anyway, aside from a couple of easy, catchy reels, I just didn’t bother to learn any. But now I can hear what they’re trying to say, I’m starting to learn a few.
From the start I found jigs much easier to understand musically… but playing them was another matter. I knew how I wanted the rhythm to come out, but my fingers just weren’t up to executing what I heard in my head. When I would record myself, I’d listen to it and think, “Dangit, that’s not at all what I meant for it to sound like…” I haven’t regained the finger control since I re-started playing again, but when I was playing before, I found that I could only start to get a satisfying jig rhythm once I knew a tune inside-out and backwards. But I’d probably still make the discerning listener cringe.
Here’s my uninformed theory:
Reels are a rhythmic thing. (Well, both are) but if you pay careful attention to the bowing of a fiddler the reel is really all about the bowing.
Whistles and flutes are more melody instruments than rhythm instruments, and jigs appear to have an easier melody to hear and repeat back than reels do.
So this makes jigs seem easier at first. But it’s deceptive.
Now that I feel I understand reel rhythm (my head does if not my fingers) it’s the jig rhythm I find more difficult, and therefore I don’t feel I understand jigs as well. I think reels are easier now.
And I agree very strongly that hornpipes are underplayed. More hornpipes!!
I agree. The pros tend to play reels at lightening speed. I like them both - jigs and reels. I’ve started going to a small Irish Pub in Baltimore that has beginner session. Here’s what I’ve learned: they do a lot of Hornpipes. I don’t like hornpipes as much as jigs and reel but hornpipes are actually a great way for a beginner to learn tunes and be able to work in some ornamentations. “Boys of Bluehill,” “Off to California,” “Rights of Man,” “Harvest Home” are probably as easy to learn as any jig.
Also, any tune can be a challange if you work in a lot of ornamentation. Listen to Mary Bergin play “Monaghan’s Jig,” or Brid O’Donohue play “The Kid on the Mountain.” That’s as challanging as any reel in my opinion.
Turtle T
I don’t necessarily think ‘the pro’s’ always play reels at ‘lightning speed’ and I don’t really think as a general point ornamentation is the problem and it was certainly not the problem Steve and I were getting at.
At a very basic level it’s getting the proper rhythm for a jig, pulse and phrasing that is the problem. As it happens I was just converting a few hours of my old Micho Russell tapes to the digital age and I came across one track that bore out the point of what I am saying. It was Micho playing the Kilfernora jigs, joined by an English mandolin player who played a perfect 6/8 tune but was totally oblivious what it is to play a jig and so worked Micho into a position where there was nothing he could do but trying to keep up and throw out everything that would have been natural to him when playing a jig.
I have copied a section here so you can hear for yourself (hopefully) our point of how difficult a good jig can be if you don’t grasp it and how a good jigplayer will get mangled in a clash between proper jigplaying and run of the mill 6/8, there’s no lift, no space and the whole thing seems rushed and falling forward.
So if ever you get the popular advice here that all it takes to play jigs is chanting the mantra ‘jigity jigity’ and put notes to it, don’t heed the advice, it’s wrong. It’s what Seamus Ennis called ‘running a tune off, like a good typist typing’.
Amen.
Today I heard an example of just that.
The notes were there, but it was soulless.
I’ve always liked jigs better and slip jigs in particular, with hornpipes a second to them. Reels are ok, just not as much fun for me.
@ sbfluter: fiddle playing is always all about the bowing, no matter the tune type. bowing is no less important in a jig than a reel. just different phrasing and accents. like playing whistle. breathing is just as important in a jig as a reel.
@ the general discussion: jigs are easier to pick up the basics than reels. they are, however harder to get sounding right. in my opinion. i think it has a lot to do with the space between notes, as was alluded to earlier. playing faster to cover up those awkward spaces is just masking problems. working on making jigs sound right at slower speeds is essential.
I do believe you have to pick your battles, if you take reels like The Flags of Dublin, Monaghan Twig, I have no money, Johnny going to Ceili, The Ash Plant, Anything for John Joe, Ships are Sailing that are very clear and simple in their structure and phrasing you’ll find they are as simple and easy as any jig and I’d rather give any of those to a pupil than for example the Frieze Breeches. As for jigs, the key to picking them up easily and playing them well is understanding their structure.
Reels are extremely popular among players, and for a reason. I believe it’s a beginner’s state of mind to dismiss them. Slip jigs, jigs, reels etc they are different forms and all have their own place. Dismissing any of them out of hand, not unlikely because you may not well able to handle them yet, is robbing yourself of a load of potential possibilities and enjoyment.
For a few reasons, I never was a big fan of Micho’s playing but I actually thought the clip was pretty good, as far as jig playing goes.
WRT jigity-jigity advice, I think this is appropriate for learners. As I seem to recall Bill Ochs saying on his tutor tape, learning to play well is learn to do simple things really well. That’s not to say that a tune should be made trite but getting the basic rhythm and pulse down pat, for me at least, provides the basis for more artistic playing.
Now this matter of “soul” is rather flummoxing: a) no one ever describes what exactly it is; b) people hear it in places where others don’t. For example, lots will say Ce!ine Di*n has soul, others say she sounds like a sl^t. So who’s right? IMO, she is soulful and she does possess technique but she and minions cross the threshold of good taste and hence loses soul.
I totally agree with Peter’s discussion about the importance of phrasing in jigs, not just jigity, jigity. For me, as a slow beginner, I’m best served by tutorials that give a slowed down version, that I can pick up. The latest one I’ve purchased is L.E.McCullough’s 121 session tunes. For phrasing I think the Bill Okun tutorial is excellent. By the way, I didn’t use the word “always” when I said pros play reels real fast. But for me, if I’m at all trying to pick up a tune from a recording that is not a tutorial, I find reels the most daunting.
Turtle T
You are saying two things that are contrary to eachother, you should learn to do simple things well, getting the basics solid BUT the basics are NOT jigety jigety, the basics are within the phrases or buildingblocks if you like, that make up the tune and they are not the same as the jiggety jiggety by the bar approach.
I can hear clearly where Micho is forced off his natural rhythm in that clip and how uneasy he feels with it and maybe that’s why we’re having this discussion.
Maybe I should add another clip later of Micho playing on his own to show you the difference.
No not really. Rhythm is one of the “building blocks”–how can it not be? Jiggity-jiggity is merely one model for playing the jig rhythm:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/michorussell
Track 6 sounds jiggity-ish to me (and with appropriate phrasing).
Phrasing is important but I can easily execute the phrases of a jig, preserving the delineations between the phrases and yet not sound like a jig at all.
We could talk circles around this but so long as we are able to achieve the desired musical outcomes, then what does it really matter who’s abstractions are ultimately correct?
Your comment that the clip I posted sounded ‘good’ indicated to me we were not talking about the same desirable musical outcomes.
[Edit]: mTGuru kindly cleaned up the clip posted earlier, hoping it would help making the point: cleaned up Micho’s Kilfenorajigs