Last night a guy rings up and says he has a gig tomorrow and no reed, can I make him one!
Can he pick it up at 10 in the morning!! Because I’m feeling particularly generous I say OK, even though I didn’t make his chanter. So last night I work 3 hours late, and this morning start at 7.30. The result is the guy gets a good, perfectly tuned reed for a chanter I have never seen this morning at 10am. When I ask him for 60 Euro he complained. Basically, I did 6 hours work for this person, you work it out! 10 euro an hour, it’s not much really. There, I feel better now, it’s off my chest!!
60 euro= bout $58-59 u.s, that’s bout average market price for a reed. the bloke should feel lucky he got a overnight reed and not have to wait weeks,months etc.
seamus
More than fair. Did you take the reed back?
Not surprised to hear it Brendan. There’s nothing like a piper breathing down your neck while trying to get his pipes sorted!!
Cheers
Alan
What a flaming moron.
Are there times though when a good chanter is easily reeded, and the time taken to fit a good reed from those prepared, much less, making 60 euros very generous remuneration?
Much thanks for the symathy!
Unfortunately, musicians often have a sense of entitlement…don’t they. “I’ve gotta play so you should make me a reed at little or no cost.” “I’m playing in your pub so I want free food and drink.” “The world owes me a living 'cause I’m a musician and entertain the world.” See it all the time…
Turn that Nowegian forest Cat on 'em…he won’t be back!
Just let him have a go at making one himself that compares with the one you made. That should sort out any whining about money pretty rapidly.
Thoughts from a piper employed in the finance industry:
There are many facets of pricing products (we employ over 50 people just to price products). In this case I would consider the following items:
- Standard Cost of a Reed
- Premium for expedition
- Difficulty of making a functional reed for an unfamiliar chanter
- Tip due to the pipe maker to maintain the relationship
I would pay the following for these items ($USD: $50, $15, $10, $20). The latter being the most important. People generally pay a 15% tip to wiaters for mediocre service; the relationship between a pipe-maker and a piper is so important that a tip is due (noting that I often pay the tip in Scotch).
I would advise, going forward, stating your price and your price-logic before the work begins. This will mitigate frustration for both parties in the business relationship. As difficult as customers can be at times, they do put food on the table.
I did that to Joe Kennedy twice (asked for a reed quickly). His prompt response was so impressive that I put down a deposit on a 1/2 set.
Regards,
Virgil
Novice Piper
Given that you’re a professional pipe-maker, Brendan, the guy was way out of line, and it’s no harm at all that you should have raised the matter.
I’ve been thinking of starting a thread to discuss (in a hopefully non-confrontational way!) the whole range of issues governing relations between pipers and makers. My intention was that this should serve as a preliminary to distilling some wisdom to guide prospective purchasers in their choice of maker. These issues would include not only the technical and taste-related issues (such as concert v. flat) but also the economics of the business - supply and demand, waiting lists and pricing. I’ll come back to that later when I’ve given it a little more thought, because I want to be sure that we can have clear ground rules for the discussion to make sure it doesn’t go off the rails.
Much of the bad feeling which occasionally arises results from the fact that, until fairly recently, pipers largely depended on the devotion of a few amateurs rather than professionalism in the pipe-making business. We’re still in an era where people who have a full-time job elsewhere can be called upon to turn out reeds for no cost - e.g. at a tionol - so attitudes to the pricing of reeds are a particularly sensitive issue. I suspect that many pipers don’t realise how long it can take to make and fit a reed, especially for a chanter made by someone else.
Virgil, you’re welcome, and your input on the economics will be appreciated.
If it is any help , I had that happen to me once , The person was ranting at me in my basement so loud that my wife + kids could here it upstairs . I finnally gave them ,reed,remember , it is not there fault money back , and spare reeds + extra staples and threw some drone cane at them , lol just to have a saitsfied customer . lesson , try to be up front about pricing ,. the customer is allways right .lol.
Roger,
That sounds like an excellent idea; count on my contribution from a piper’s perspective.
Joe will attest that I am a demanding customer, but we have successfully balanced expediency with quality and respect. We have discussed this topic (the contention between pipers and pipe-makers) on numerous occasions. I am a more patient and reasonable customer due to his coaching on the difficulty of reed-making, materials available, potential chanters, and quality. A Code of Relations between pipers and pipe-makers would behoove the industry.
Tok: I would have politely declined that piper’s business and shown him/her the door. Respect, civility and professional courtesy should be the foundation of any business relationship.
Regards,
Virgil
I agree 
[ This Message was edited by: tok on 2003-01-04 20:05 ]
hi brendan,
when you think that a good fiddler thinks nothing of spending £30+ regularly on good strings it,s amazing that pipers who can,t reed their own chanters quibble at a nominal charge for a reed that will probably last them the equivalent of several sets of strings.reedmakers,it,s time to put our prices up,BIGSTYLE.
ALLAN MOLLER.
As an extention to this thread, how long should you expect to wait when you request a reed from the maker of your stick? I understand that you cannot expect him to drop everything and start on it. And I can understand that a maker might be reluctant to dive in on an unknown chanter, especially if he doesn’t have the instrument there in front of him, and has been asked to “just make something you think will work”. But, how long should you wait before you ring him up again and ask where is it?
Best Regards,
dave boling
Dave, good thoughts here…
From a customers standpoint?
I would hope that every full-time pipemaker would allow for reeds, repairs, tionols, vacations, down-time or occasional customer visits into their normal working timeframe. Is it realistic to think this way? depends.
Let’s do a survey !!
Knowing you could get it sooner, would you accept a reed from the maker who did your chanter without sending the chanter back? (this might involve a bit of tuning/tweaking on your part) Would 2-3 weeks sound fair?
If you sent the chanter back for fitting would 3-4 weeks sound fair?
At the first sign of cold weather, you mail your chanter back for re-reeding without calling first. 10 other customers did the same thing and you now have to wait 4-5 weeks. Sound fair?
Would you expect to pay a maker more to have a reed fitted to a chanter made by another maker than one of his own?
If it were available, would you pay more for rush service?
I think it is rare to find a good pipemaker and a good reedmaker combined , so we reedmakers must somehow find a pricing scedule that is in context with what the makers are charging , for pipes , otherwise the nitch market is too small , and wind up doing it for beer $ , If that ,lol tok .
On 2003-01-09 18:44, tok wrote:
, so we reedmakers must somehow find a pricing scedule that is in context with what the makers are charging , for pipes ,
Tom,
I always find this a difficulty. I decided on a set price for reeds in keeping with the prices of pipemakers whom I respect, know and can make good reeds too. But… often the case is this:-
You make a reed per usual, you stick it in the chanter it’s fine, job done, then you get a cranky chanter which requires a lot of time and effort in getting the tuning and pitch correct and may take 2 or 3 reeds, rushes etc.,and a lot of extra time before you get something suitable, and then, because the chanter is poor it almost doesn’t seem worth charging for it because the owner will never get true pleasure from the chanter.
Sometimes the sparkle in their eyes is reward enough !! (That’s why I say, never look a piper face on )
Cheers
Alan