How to correct a flat second octave D on a long foot import

I have recently acquired an import flute, with the long foot (two extra toneholes, supposedly for better tone than on a short foot). The first octave is completely fine, and most of the second octave is ok too. Just the first note of the second octave, D, is miserably flat. I need to know how to sharpen just this one note. If I enlarged the hole to the north (towards the embouchure hole), it would fix that one, but would also make the low D sharp. I tried undercutting the first vent hole southward, which I am thinking would make the hole larger in the southward direction only at the bore, leaving it the same size on the outside as original. Since this is one of the extra two holes on the foot that are not used in playing, and since the outside cross sectional size of the hole is the same, only enlarged southward on the inside at the bore, it should not mess with the first octave. I then played the flute and it appeared to work to a small degree, but I need to sharpen that second octave D a bit more still. Any suggestions how to sharpen just that one note without knocking the whole flute out of range for A440?

Have you tried pulling the footjoint out a bit (i.e., away from the body)? I’d try various combinations of head-, middle- (if you have one) and foot-joint fiddling before I got out the tools. I had a cheapie flute that worked for and I just drew a line on the “southward” body tenon with a china marker for future reference; worked a treat.

Yup, did that already. This flute has the following divisions:
O T | ooo | ooo OO
That’s the embouchure and tuning slide, then a joint, then the three left hand holes and then a joint, and then the three right hand holes and the two vents (no foot joint). So if I pull that, I’m also pulling the three lowest sounding notes flat.

I should mention that this is a “Mid-east” flute of pakistan origin, and although I have played some of these that are simply unplayable, I wanted to give this one my best effort since only that one note is out. Much better overall than any other pakistan flute I’ve tried.

If it were the other way around-- Low D flat and Second octave D sharp, I’d know what to do.

I even tried drastically changing the cork position and then compensating in the tuning slide, but then I end up with the other notes incorrect.

Ummm…

Nope that’s about all I’ve got other than drastic stuff like shortening the foot tenon but again, that’s a global treatment for one note. You are fingering it OXX XXX and lipping up, I assume? Some flutes require that on the second D more than others.

Sorry I can’t be of more use :frowning: Good luck!

Suggest you consult a flutemaker. You may need to invest some money
to get the flute in tune. On the other hand the remedy may be very cheap.
A good flutesmith will check out the flute and tell you what can and cannot
be done and how much it will cost.

You are fingering it OXX XXX and lipping up

Yes, I am. That brings it a bit closer, but still not there. According to the “Flutini”, the best I can get on that note is 35 cents flat. The Flutini also pointed out to me that the high B is about 20 cents sharp, and the Third octave D is about 30 cents sharp. All other notes are within around 15 cents one way or another.

I am starting to think that the final solution, were I to go that far to perfect its pitch, would involve modifying the bore at strategic location(s). The reason I say this, is that on a whim, I played the flute with a cleaning rod inserted in the bore and IT GOT BETTER! not all the way, but better nonetheless. What happened then is that all the other notes came down (flattened a bit) and I had to close the tuning slide a bit to compensate, but then it was better. Strange. Its as if the manufacturer has a good process for the hole placement, but not for the precision of the bore.

You’re saying this like you’re surprised!? :wink:

“Rushing” a flute. Huh. Shoot, why not? Works on a pipe chanter. Maybe you could try a guitar string in the flute the same way?! Or insert a folded-over piece of “milk ring” midway down the bore or something, since you can take the flute apart. Definitely worth a try.

You can raise the pitch of any 2nd octave note compared to the first octave one by enlarging the bore half way between the notes first vent hole and the blow hole. For D the location is near the L1 hole (which is why you can vent L1 to force the 2nd octave D to play instead of the first). So if you enlarge the bore near the L1 hole you’ll fix your problem but you’ll probably cause other issues, like raising the pitch of C and C# and maybe first octave B. Also it will affect the pitch of various 3rd octave notes and maybe other unpredicted stuff.

You can experiment with a nail, bit of pencil or some such in the bore at various points; a “fishing” expedition ,- this will have the opposite effect of enlarging it, but you should be able to see how much bore change effects things, and what things it effects.

Cheers
Graeme

Thanks for that suggestion. It turns out that the L1 hole which is responsible for C and C# does have some wiggle room. I looked back at the Flutini results for that hole, and it was close enough that I was going to leave it alone, but it was actually a few cents flat anyway. So I could get away with undercutting L1 towards the blowhole and end up with the C# just a tad on the sharp side, but still usable, and if that fixes the flatness of D, I’d go for it. Also, if I need to insert a dowel or split dowel in the lower section as well to close down the far end of the taper a bit ( only if needed ), that can be done as well. Basically, I’m ok with experimenting around because there is a lot of room to play around in the tuning slide, the cork, and how much of the blow hole I cover with my lip. I will just go slow and check often so I don’t overdo it.

Here’s a picture in case anyone has questions about hole placement. Also, I have the cork in such that the cork-to-center on the blowhole distance is set at 1 inside diameter equivalent.

You know, how closely in tune are the G and the high G? I’m wondering if your cork is a bit out of position. I’d suggest trying to move the cork in the headjoint back a mm or two and see if that helps. Also, I’d suggest not messing with anything for a few weeks…sometimes you just need to adjust to the flute.

Eric

The G is right, the high-G is sharp.
Basically, the first octave is ok, with the low D bordering on slightly sharp.
The second octave, the D is flat, and the G is sharp.

I had never seen this combination before, and normally, I make flutes in PVC which is cylindrical. So I may be thinking incorrectly for a tapered bore, but I’m not sure how it would be possible to bring the 2nd octave D up in pitch without making the high G even more sharp than it is.

The result is that in key of D, I can play and work the embouchure to bring it in.
But in key of G, it is almost unplayable due to the flat d and sharp g in the second octave.

I’m almost ready to contact a maker or repair person to see if they’ll go over it with me. I would try myself, but I’m just doubting myself cause it is tapered bore and I’m used to cylindrical.

I remember a year or two ago hearing of someone who was tweaking
Pakistani flutes and selling them, a good maker of his own flutes too,
I believe. But I can’t remember who it was. I’m not sure he was in
the USA. Maybe somebody recalls?

Rod Cameron has done this in the past, but any maker could tune up a Pakistani flute.

I should have mentioned another bore alteration that could correct this problem and it’s probably a better way to proceed as there will be less nasty side effects. Make the bore in the foot smaller which will lower both 1st and 2nd octave Ds but lower the 1st octave much more than the 2nd. Then make the D vent hole larger which will bring them both up again but bring up the 2nd octave D slightly more than the first. Test the first part of this by fishing then just use some wax to confirm since that is reversible. Once you’re confident it’s going to work enlarge the D vent hole.

Regarding the 2nd octave G being sharp, I’ve seen this where the tuning slide has to be pulled out a fair way to get in tune at A=440 , It’ll effect the note vented 2X the distance of the slide away from the blow hole, usually G. Try adding a section of tuning slide to fill in the gap.

Cheers
Graeme