I suppose because I grew up with players taking hornpipes and playing them as reels, it doesn’t seem that much of a big deal to me, but that’s because I am used to hearing it done.
I also play some jigs as hornpipes, ‘The Irish Washerwoman’ being one that springs to mind.
not called that of course since Goodman
Pat Mitchell’s version in CRE2 goes under that name.
It’s one of the 12/8 ones that can easily slip into 4/4/. In the Feis Cheoil collection it’s ‘a Galway Reel’ given in reel time.
Another set of tunes that is ambiguous in it’s form that comes up often is the Charlie Harris one that includes Spindle Shanks (I use that for want of another name, I mean the AFDF EFDF AFAd e one) and Creamer’s
T:Creamer’s Reel
M:4/4
L:1/8
S:“First Collection of Traditional Irish Music” (M.Mulvihill)
R:reel
K:D
e|A2 AB AFDF|AFAd f3 g|afef dBBc|dBAF FEDF|
AFAB AFDF|AFAd f3 g|afef dBAF|Adfe d3 
e|fded BAFA|dcdf a2 af|fefd edBc|dBAF FEDF|
A2 AB AFDF|AFAd f3 g|afef dBAF|Adfe d3
The Buck from the mountain is part of that group as well, played as reels or hrnps but not feeling like they should be either really.
Presumable Phill wants to learn to play the music in an irish traditional style. So the traditional musicians* are the ones who are to say if it is right or not.
Valid point, Nico, thank you … I’ve just never been exposed to that level of “tradition” in any culture to fully appreciate how important it can be … one of the “problems” of a modern polyglot society ?!?
Thank you all for your considered replies. As usual an informative discussion highlighting the fact that I may have approached this in the wrong way. 
I think what I am hearing is that difference between hornpipes and reels is not as well defined as I had believed, and may be more subtle than patterns of emphasis. (Agree or disagree? Either comment would be helpful)
Maybe what I need to do is take my recorder and (with permission) capture a bit of how the session played the tune. Then I can (try to) copy that rather than worrying about the distinction between a hornpipe and a reel. (Agree or disagree?).
Here is what I am getting so far - I know that I have several weeks of practice ahead.
Mostly I would like to know if this passes for a reel rhythm (I know its way too slow). But any criticism welcome.
Yes, that’s definitely hornpipey.
Try listening to some good reel playing and emulate that.
I knew I should have left that out. I couldn’t remember the common name, but I just meant not commonly called that in a while. I actually knew it was known by that since Goodman… Have to be more careful 
@Phill,
I don’t know the quality of your local session, so I’d give a qualified yes. If you want to be more sure, listen to a known expert recording.
Thank you Mr G, for listening, for commenting, and for pointing me to an exemplar. You confirm that I have drifted into hornpipitis. Now I need to work on the cure. Does anyone have suggestions?
Thanks.
Less swing, and work on that first roll. The rhythm of the first roll is very… hornpipey 
Listen to your first little bit and then the examplar. See how the example roll is more even and more definitely spread over (the equivalent of) three notes, whereas yours is more leaning on the first two, making it feel more like a triplet (three notes in two) rather than a roll (three notes in three). Also, your cut and tap on the roll aren’t crisp enough, so it adds to the triplet feel.
I think to start, definitely try playing it straighter. More even time to all the notes.
- This may sound facetious, but it’s not meant to be. At the moment you sound as though you are walking through the tune, and rather stiffly, or at least self-consciously, to boot.
You need to start running… lean forward and let yourself ease into a nice loping gait. Running and walking are very different movements. There’s an analogous difference between playing a hornpipe and a reel, to my mind. And this is not a question of speed (you can probably walk faster that the slowest you can run), it’s a question of… well, I don’t know. Feeling, or locomotion. I think you just have to let go and try to run. Doesn’t matter if you fall flat on your face at first, get up and do it again.
I repeat, not intended to be facetious.
- Listen to reels being played well, listen and listen and listen again. Try to notice something, any little thing, visualize some little pattern of notes you hear as a picture, any little hook that will give your mind a way into the mystery. Once you get through that first door, the others will open up more easily.
Sorry if this all sounds very arty-farty airy-fairy or whatever. I don’t (usually) get quite so new-agey about things, but from my own experience of trying to crack my way into this music, decades ago, rules people give you and instructions about note lengths, etc., are of little use. It’s what you hear and try to reproduce that will do it for you.
Thank you for that take StevieJ. I understand what you mean, I think. (Please don’t feel the need to apologise for the style of your explanation, I appreciate all the help offered). I think you describe one important part of the problem - my lack of confidence in my musical ability. I can start out attempting to play a reel, and maybe getting a straighter rhythm - but as soon as I feel comfortable and start enjoying myself it seems I have slipped back into the old familiar hornpipe thing. When I start running I go back to the style I know. Maybe I need to avoid hornpipes completely for a while and try to play straight reels.
To all,
It seems it comes down in the end to ‘practice, practice, practice’ - an aware sort of practice that is not happy with getting the notes right but keeps an ear on the rhythm, too. I suppose there is no surprise there then, and no slightly easier paths either. 
Well put, and thanks for articulating it so clearly. I was trying to simplify things so as not to add confusion but my misnomer was probably just as much so. I actually never know how to explain this stuff in the forums because someone will come along and argue for reels being notated in 2/2 or some other technical difference and I don’t have the music theory or head knowledge to stand up in such a discussion.
All I know is that I tap my foot and punch the pulse (to varying degrees) on the 1 and 3 and try to add lift on the 2 and 4
@straycat: I think that the majority of irish traditional musicians of a certain quality play reels with two beats per bar. I think that the majority of people write them out in 4/4, rather than 2/4 or 2/2, however other than the time signature at the beginning of the sheet music, there is no visual difference between 4/4 and 2/2 (and since most of the time people actually use the C and C/ symbols it’s even less clear!) and there’s no real benefit to using 2/4 since it would be more cluttered. And it’s helpful to reserve 2/4 for polkas as a handy, quick way to know which is which.
I think I’d be happy if 2/2 was reserved for reels and 4/4 for hornpipes (and everything else, I suppose), since hornpipes, to me anyway, always have four beats to the bar, but at the end of the day it’s not critical.
Very funny. 
I absolutely agree. But tell me that even played fast, straight, and in place of a reel, the phrasing and pulse of Cronin’s isn’t a bit of an odd man out when you put it next to something like Connaught Heifers. But, that’s me. Ultimately, I suppose it doesn’t matter in the world of function.
Yeah, those tunes fascinate me because you can’t pin them down so well. They’re the demimonde.
Great topic. It’s taken off fast enough, too.
Half teasing, half serious. If you really can always tell that it’s supposed to be a hornpipe, than I do think you have a better ear than most! I actually only really remember the Cronin’s incident. All other times when I’ve heard it, I haven’t noticed… I guess… Maybe it’s never happened in earshot since, though!
At any rate, I do think it depends on the tune. There’s a lovely set of hornpipes on the recent Brendan Begley / Caoimhin O’Raghallaigh album that could probably turn into reels pretty easily. Back to the Kerry connection, though.
My current favourite hornpipe is Galway Bay, and I think it would also turn into a reel fairly easily. But I do tend to like my hornpipes a little less swung, anyway. I probably self-select for those sorts more than most people would! Her Long Golden Hair, Caislean an Oir, for examples.
No, of course not always. But so long as they’re not one of those pesky Twilight Tunes, I have to say, yeah, I’ll hear a hornpipe vs. a reel as the case may be. Just how it is, I guess. I’m kind of known for this hairsplitty nonsense among my bunch; someone’ll play a set of reels and one tune sticks out to me as more a hornpipe than anything, and I’ll say, “Wasn’t that tune actually more of a hornpipe?” And we’ll discuss it, maybe play it some more but ramped-down, and it’s not a rare thing for them to say, “Hey, you know, that does sounds right.” Doesn’t pay the bills, though.
How about playing for dancers … When they call for a hornpipe, I swear you could play Purple Haze or Ode to Joy or Hava Nagila. Whatever. As long as it’s at the right tempo, with the right swing (whatever they expect), and has the right number of measures … they couldn’t care less. You could beat tin cans together, if you can make it sound hornpipey.
OK, my tongue is (partly) in cheek … But the serious point is that there are really two separate things here: 1. The Performance, whether a particular rendition of tune X is perceived as a hornpipe, or danceable as a hornpipe; 2. The Melody, with certain structures I associate as being inherently hornpipey - rocking arpeggios, stepped runs, ease of triplet insertion, etc.
Call this extrinsic and intrinsic hornpipiness. The two may coincide, or maybe not.
You mean céilí dancers, right? Absolutely true. One time we evilly abandoned the snare drummer to be on his own, and everything chugged merrily along without a hitch. Everyone was happy, for the dancers danced, the drummer hardly noticed, and the rest of us had a good chuckle. We’ve substituted jigs for polkas (or was it vice-versa?) when we knew we could do so, and no problem.
Spot on for me. 
Well, step dancers, actually. And to be fair, I’m thinking of mostly the little girls with curls from the academies. Weaned on recorded compilations with tracks labeled “The Reel”, “The Jig”, “The Hornpipe” … Something you turn on and off with the push of a button. When you play live, you’re just some kind of weird meat-based rhythm machine for them. Sorry, veering pretty OT …
Continuing the OT briefly…
My experience with stepdancers has in contrast been more, um…stringent. I’ve encountered enough who will mill about in confusion if you don’t play The Butterfly when it’s time for slip jigs. So to some extent there’s a dependence on tune recognition, but that depends on their level, I fully expect.