How do Chieftain, Overton and MK compare? (clogging/tone)

Whistle
21

Hey All!

Goldies, Byll, Mark, and the original poster. Hi to all.

What a wonderful topic, this gets me so excited.

To the original poster: You are going to have to play them all, and keep the one with the playability and/or tone you most like.

I used to get really concerned about these kinds of threads (before I had tried the whistles involved) and would wonder which was really better, because I wanted to get the right one. Then I learned to play the quena. Learn to play the quena–well–and you’ll have no problem knowing how to give any ethnic wind instrument–whether it’s fipple-blown or a flute–exactly what it wants. I think this just comes with playing different kinds of wind instruments, a variety of whistles, flutes, quenas, and learning how to bring the best out of all of them. That being said, I haven’t encountered a whistle as well intoned as my Goldie. The top notes, second and third octave, are outrageously easy to hit, and those top second octave notes can be backed off of dynamically, yet still be in tune. The Kerry Pro (Overton design made by Hardy) speaks quicker in the lowest two notes, has a slightly different sound, but takes a more aggressive playing style. I would say it requires a higher velocity of breath. I love both whistles. I could actually see myself having K-Pros and Goldies in D and F, because I vastly prefer the Overton design over other types of whistle, and these two makes of whistle, while being so similar, also bring out a very different sound, expression, and playing style. There are fundamental differences in the design that make each whistle best suited to a different “bent” or modus operandi in playing. I’ve accepted the fact that no whistle will ever have everything I want as far as the variability of tone, dynamics, and attack.

That’s what flutes are for, especially quenas. Oh yes. The quena players on the board know what I’m talking about. I’m speaking as someone who is not strictly a trad player. However, I still don’t think that flutes (or even quenas) nix whistles. Especially if you play trad. But even for what I do, not being as a trad player, there is a specific niche that the whistle fills. When I want that whistle sound, I’ve firmly decided that it’s the Overton design for me. And in this regard, it’s more of a sound thing than a playability thing. I’ll come back to this point in a moment.

So, all of that was an aside. The original poster posed a question that, to me, essentially inquires about the difference between the likes of MK/Burke/V3 and Overton/Goldie/K-Pro/NR. All are awesome whistles. Really. The Goldies and K-Pro’s stick out to me as the best, because when I grab a whistle, I want it to sound really whistly (whistley?). However, if you don’t play flute, and you are wanting a flutier sounding whistle, explore some of the other options. They are all great.

After having gone through some whistles, and wind instruments in general, here is what I’ve learned: Just listen to them all, decide which sound you like the best. Choose the one that makes that sound which grabs you by the chest (erm, I mean the inward parts of the chest, i.e. the figurative “heart,” not the breasts). Then, all questions of playability aside, buy that one and learn how to play it. It’s hard to go wrong within the list of choices that have been set out here. You can adapt to the playability of a whistle (note: most of the time, but definitely within the bounds of the whistles that have been mentioned here), but if you don’t like the sound, there is no changing that. For me, I like my whistles to be whistle-ee (another attempt at spelling this word), my flutes to be flutey, and my quenas to be… well, I won’t even get into that here; too much to say.

22

It’s amusing, in a way, the path any thread that mentions clogging (of whistles, not the dancing!) takes.

Someone will say that when they play X whistle it clogs more quickly than Y whistle.

Then someone else will come in and say “no it doesn’t! My X whistle never clogs!”

This sort of discussion doesn’t happen on Highland Bagpipe forums, because in the Highland piping world everyone knows that each player puts out a different amount of moisture in his/her breath. They’re called “wet blowers” and “dry blowers”.

Any piper with much Pipe Band experience, especially a piper who has extensive experience “setting tone” for pipe bands (that is, getting an entire band’s pipes in tune and making them stay in tune) knows that each piper’s pipes will change pitch more or less rapidly depending on how wet of a blower they are.

This aspect of each piper is simply acknowleged and dealt with, not denied by others.

I’m a “very wet blower” so I have to do different things with my pipes than “dry blowers” do, and I have to play different whistles than dry blowers do.

23

Sorry, I just don’t go with that. I’m a wet blower too with pipes but whistle needs a completely different blowing technique. I can’t see how the two can be compared.

24

Yes I fully agree that pipes and whistles have completely different technique. But as a wet blower I put more moisture into EVERYTHING I play, not just the pipes. The flute and the whistle too get more moisture from me than they get from dry blowers.

The other difference is climate. Highland pipers are extremely sensitive to differences in humidity and temperature (and altitude) because their reeds are thus. We know that a setup that plays great at 50 degrees F. and 90% humidity isn’t going to play well at 90 degrees F. and 15% humidity. A pipe band that goes from one climate to the other is going to have to retune everything.

But we tend to ignore this sort of thing with whistles and flutes and such. But if someone says “my X whistle never clogs” and someone else says “my X whistle always clogs” we might well see if the two people live in the same climate, or not.

25

I think that helps explain a lot. I don’t play pipes, but I do know that I’m a wet blower – from trumpet to sax to flute and whistle.

So would it be accurate to say that someone who is a dry blower will likely face fewer, if any, problems with clogging, while a wet blower is more likely to face clogging on whistles with a narrow windway (like an Overton), and will thus have to work more on technique to keep it from clogging? Dry or wet still need to focus on breath control, etc., to get the most out of the various whistles, but a wet blower would face an additional challenge (ignoring climate and humidity for the time being). That also could explain that certain designs are more accommodating for wet blowers…

Mark

26

My experience is that aluminum whistles DO tend to clog a bit more than others. I notice it on my MK, Impempe and Burke. Warming DOES help, and sucking/blowing quickly clears it. I agree that the problem doesn’t warrant all the attention it gets.

27

Speaking as someone who has been playing whistle poorly for many years (making me one of the most experienced bad players on the planet), I’ve always been a bit baffled by Goldies-are-hard-to-play stuff. I’ve always taken a bit of time to keep the airway clean and just haven’t noticed problems with clogging…or at least any more than any number of whistles I can name.

Now, I guess I can see the argument that Colin’s whistles take a bit more skill to play in the higher range. So what? I guess someone who’s a complete beginner and plans to maintain a low level of skill forever–sorta like me-- might want to avoid buying one of Colin’s whistles from a shop. On the other hand, if you want a whistle that’s “easy” to play–whatever that means–just call Colin and I suspect he’ll fix you right up.

28

I occasionally do the ‘sudden suck’ thing on copelands to remove moisture from the windway
while playing, and I’ve seen performing pros do it too. Yum!
anyhow I do think this is a legit technique.

29

Well you’ll never catch one of those single reed players suckin’ the mouth piece clear!

:puppyeyes: :really: :puppyeyes:

30

I’ve been playing sax and clarinet (single reed instruments) for 40+ years and I inhale (suck) frequently through the mouthpiece to clear it and the reed of excess saliva.

31

I don’t play enough whistle. When I do, I tend to play it hard like a flute. At the risk of asking someone to answer a rhetorical question, as well as veering off thread, I would really like to know the answer. The person sitting next to me when I play would probably be happy too. :smiley:

So, I’d love to hear some input on the technique errors which cause clogging of whistles?

32

If ya play whistle 4-6 hours a day for years don’t your salivary glands get a clue?


of course ya do, there isn’t any option
but after a couple hundred thousand times
it’s hard for someone else to notice.

that’s long for “I was just being a smart ass” :smiley:
now that we’re there…I’ve got ya by a decade

33

The trouble is that blocking is such a game changing problem. Some people don’t think the problem exists - it definitely does, but to varying extents for different players and different instruments.

I remember I was playing at a gathering in the Himalaya for a Lama and their entourage (later on we we had a ceilidh in the monastery and taught the monks a ceilidh dance or two!). Just at the wrong time the whistle blocked (maker shall remain nameless other than to say it wasn’t an Goldie or an MK [this was before I made whistles]. It really spoiled what should have been an outstanding moment - making it memorable for all the wrong reasons! Fortunately I was able to use altitude as an excuse! As it happened our bus got washed down a river with all our kit in it - so I lost the whistle anyway - which funnily enough was one of the reasons I started making whistles in the first place.

So I do understand why people get frustrated by blocking. The first whistles I made blocked, but only during the day. Not got those problems now.

34

I’m revisiting this old thread because I recently aquired two Bernard Overton low whistles (E and Eb) and I’ve been playing them quite a bit, switching back and forth between Burkes and my MK.

I’ve been paying close attention to the clogging issue. I’ve played the Overton Eb mostly, in a variety of temperatures.

On several occasions I’ve played it in the morning, when the whistle has been sitting in the car outside all night, and is near freezing. Many people have said that the clogging issue is mostly when Overtons haven’t been warmed up and indeed it clogs after a few bars of music when cold.

On the other hand, I’ve picked up the Overton when it’s been sitting in the car on a warm day, the air temperature in the 80s, the temp inside the car in the 90s. This, I think, is about as “warmed up” as a whistle can be, warm to the touch, and the entire whistle the same temperature as the breath coming out of my mouth. When the whistle is this warm I can play through a tune or two before the tone starts diminishing due to moisture narrowing the windway.

35

As it is Bernard’s whistles, it is at least 3 years old, so it might need a good clean out and could solve the problem. On the other hand your playing profile indicates that you prefer soft blowing instruments and if what you have there is medium or hard blowing it may not suit your playing style and clogging is one of the problems you then will have as you are not blowing how it wants to be played.

Greetings
Brigitte

36

Call me unnecessarily squeamish, but I feel really nauseous now :frowning:

ETA - the sucking thing…

37

As Brigitte suggests, to make a fair comparison readers should remember that various Overtons have subtle, but meaningful differences in design and finished configuration. Consequently, it’s a bit difficult to generalize too widely about how the entire line may respond to clogging issues (or others for that matter). You really need to know what design is being discussed and how it is being blown to get a fair comparison with other, one-design, whistles.

But ducks, keep thinking “it’s only condensation, not spit”
Maybe that will help. :thumbsup:

Best wishes.

Steve

38

yawn