Hey all, I’m kind of new to the whole forum thing so be gentle, its my first time.
I’m a fairly experienced whistler, not great but decent enough, currently using a Chieftains Low D and a Clarkes D, both not that great for sessions but I love the tone on them. For christmas, I received a half set Uilllean which is inherently un-playable, (A pakistan special). Now we’re attempting to get this E-bay monstrosity sent back and our money refunded.
If successful I will have around £400 ($600ish) to buy myself a Irish flute. So the point to my wandering post is; any suggestions on a decent Flute, both for sessions and solo play, suitable for a student but also not really lacking when I gain some confidence/ability in the Flute. I could really do without getting my arse handed to me again by some E-bayer out to make a quick quid outta my hard earned cash.
So thanks in advance to all who help me out of my little quandry and Seasons Greetings to One and All
buy yourself a flute by Desi Seery made in delrin
he makes flutes easy to blow even for a beginner
Tom Doorley played his flute on first Danu albums
Desi doesn’t have a website anymore but you can always give him a ring.
these flutes are not expensive if you buy directly from Desi it will cost you 380euro for pratten style and 450euro for Rudall & Rose plus costs of shipment. You can always order case for that flute, he has pretty nice ones for 60euro.
Send me your e-mail address by PM and I’ll send you few photos that I took when I was at his workshop.
The way the exchange rate has been going 400 UK pounds is more like $800.
I recently noticed that Doc Jones at the Irish Flute Store has a used Copley in African blackwood with tuning slide for $749. I play the same model Copley. Its capable of a wonderful tone even in the hands of a beginner like me. I think its a lovely instrument. Perhaps some of the experts on the forum could comment on how far such an instrument can take you.
One can’t argue with taste.
But I suppose we can say to the newbie asking advice
that, while some people think delrin sounds
as good as wood, most players think wood sounds
better–they say things like ‘wood sounds
more alive.’ Also people performing’recording on flutes,
the pros,
are typically performing on wooden flutes,
not delrin flutes.
There may be someone out there who thinks
delrin sounds BETTER than wood, not that it merely
sounds as good, but we’ve not yet heard
from that individual.
So, while some folks think Delrin sounds as good
as wood, nobody I’m aware of thinks it sounds
better–to the contrary, most players think wood
sounds better than delrin (all other things being
equal).
Also wooden flutes are not hard to care for.
This info, which is a matter of counting noses,
may be helpful in choosing a flute.
I’ve said it before. The maker is vastly more important than the material.
The great makers that are working in polymer are making great flutes out of it.
My personal flute is wooden. It does sound a titch different to me as I play. And it certainly feels different. However, if I didn’t play regularly and were worried about cracking issues, I wouldn’t have any problem selling out and going with a delrin version of the same instrument.
That said, I think cracking in a flute properly cared for is a minimal risk.
I’ve said it before. The maker is vastly more important than the material.
The great makers that are working in polymer are making great flutes out of it.
…
Just to note that this is consistent with what I’ve been saying.
By the way, among the majority of people who think
wooden flutes sound better than delrin flutes
(all other things being equal, please note), are some of
of the makers of the best delrin flutes–least
that’s what some of them have told me personally.
I’ve played both, by the way. I got no grievance
against delrin flutes.
I’m reporting the majority view, FWIW.
May be helpful info.
It’s off topic, but I’m convinced that the feeling of wood sounding better than delrin is sort of a placebo effect.
I have two headjoints for my M&E R&R, one of polymer and the other one made of Cocobolo wood, which is also partly unlined (no metal under the embouchure, just wood). They do sound a bit different, but I often prefer the polymer one over the wooden one, partly because I wont have to dry it out after playing. But that’s how insignificant the difference in tone is, I usually bring the polymer one to gigs and even recording sessions.
For me, the ease of maintenance far outweights the difference in sound. So for a newbie, I’d recomend polymer if he isn’t feeling snobbish.
M&E and Seery are both great, I use them both. The M&E might be a little more difficult initially, but I think it has more dimensions to the sound and is slightly more rewarding to play. The Seery (large holed Pratten) has a little easier embouchure, might take a little more air and has a dryer and more straight forward sort of sound. I prefer Seery for sessions and group play, and M&E for more nuanced solo work.
I much prefer the sound I make on a Delrin over the sound I make on a Wooden Flute.
Of course, the sound I make on a wooden one is usually the sound of my lungs as they attempt to get in breath and are instead rewarded by stinging pain.
That aside, I agree with Henke. I think it’s more a placebo effect. Due to some testing on this very board, at least woods and flute makes have very little to nothing to do with sound compared to the player. This would, logically be the same for Delrin vs Wood. Delrin sounds different and worse because you expect it to. I didn’t know the early work on the Danu albums were on Delrin until I was told. Sounded pretty wooden flute to me.
The choice is yours, if you want to play a plastic flute, fine go ahead, on the other hand if you eventually decide to come on board with the great wood-flute players, you are welcome to the sweet sound of the wood flute.
What i am attempting to convey here is that there is no close comparison in the tone of plastic or wood flutes.
I agree that wood does feel different than polymer/Delrin, and it’s largely due to that difference that I prefer wood flutes, but that’s not to say Delrin flutes perform as anything less than wood flutes, please.
There are positives and negatives to each, but in terms of performance, it’s a tough call. It really does come down to just who made the flute, much more than whatever material the flute could be made of.
On the bright side, however, I’d say to be happy with whichever you get. Besides, if you stick with it for awhile, eventually you’ll have a collection including some of each, as many of this C&F board already have.
21 Jun 2004 15:41 Post subject: Plastic – NOT WOOD Reply with quote
NO plastic flute is as good as a good wood flute. There is not a single top level player who plays a plastic flute. Adjectives like “terrific” “reedy” and “wonderful” are never used by top players to describe plastic flutes.
The main reason to get a plastic flute is to save the $200 or $300 that a much better wood flute would cost. You might argue that you’re saving a tree by buying plastic or that the delrin is less pervious to changes that might adversly affect a wooden flute. But accomplished players do not choose plastic flutes based on the way they play.
From David Levine, who lives and teaches flute in Ireland.
That’s a fairly broad statement.
In the interest of full disclosure may we ask what delrin flutes you’ve played?
Did you have an exact duplicate (style, maker, embouchure cut etc) in wood for side by side comparison?
For the record:
I’ve played flutes by the following makers in true apples to apples side-by-side comparisons all other elements being equal.
Jon Cornia
Terry McGee (GLP, Rudall Refined, Rudall perfected, Pratten)
Desi Seery
Dave Copley
Hammy Hamilton
M&E
Paddy Ward
Tony Dixon
I agree that there are nuances to wood that are absent in delrin. The differences are subtle to the player and virtually non-existent to the audience in my experience.
Delrin flutes that play poorly do so because they are made poorly. Try the wooden flutes of same make and you’ll likely be similarly underwhelmed. Makers that make a great wooden flute also make a great plastic flute.
My own flute is wooden mostly because I like the way it buzzes under my fingers when I play. Delrin “feels” a bit dead to me but sounds great.
Incidently, whenever I’ve said “wood” in this thread I mean blackwood.
Boxwood is an entirely different story in my opinion…no comparison to delrin or balckwood. But that’s an entirely new can of worms.
First, I’m not here to promote or sell Delrin, and I’ve already stated my preference for wood, along with due respect to Delrin as a flute material. Yeah, I like Delrin, too.
However, Jim, I’d like you to consider something relative to your quote, as above, please. For instance, professional and other “top” level players have their audiences, and in general there is an unspoken assumption that these audiences also have their expectations. Now, as I have known a number of music professionals, would you be willing to believe that the music heard on their recordings might not always be made with the particular instrument these players are photographed with on their album covers?
Basically, unless one is a Rock 'n Roll star, the vast majority of professional musicians are aware of their audience’s expectations, and rarely go out of their way to disappoint them.
