Here's why there will never be peace in Israel

Poststructural Pub
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World Focus: Destabilizing Influence
Hezbollah emerging as key threat to truce
BY MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Thursday, February 10, 2005


RAMALLAH, West Bank: Hezbollah is emerging as the biggest threat to a fragile Israeli-Palestinian truce.


The Iranian-funded Lebanese guerrillas are offering West Bank gunmen thousands of dollars to step up attacks on Israelis, the gunmen and Palestinian security officials said yesterday.

One retired militant told The Associated Press that a Hezbollah recruiter called him just a day before this week’s Mideast summit in Egypt, told him the cease-fire wouldn’t last and offered a generous payment if he returns to violence.

A squad of five or six militants typically receives $5,000 to $8,000 a month from Hezbollah for expenses, including bullets, weapons, cell phone calling cards and spending money.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, whose political survival depends on making the cease-fire stick, is trying to avoid a confrontation with Hezbollah for the moment.

He has sent an envoy, former Palestinian Cabinet minister Abdel Fattah Hemayel, to Lebanon to try to urge Hezbollah to step back. Hemayel is not meeting Hezbollah directly, but is delivering his message through top officials of Abbas’ Fatah movement who live in exile in Lebanon and have ties to Hezbollah.

Majed Farraj, a top official in the Palestinian Interior Ministry, said “there are foreign parties who are trying to create bases in Palestine,” but he did not refer to Hezbollah directly.

“This has a political dimension, and the Palestinian Authority will not allow it,” Farraj said. “Fatah leaders here and abroad are exerting efforts to deal with this.”

Palestinian officials have also expressed concern in recent meetings with U.S. and European diplomats about Hezbollah’s destabilizing influence, participants said.

In Lebanon, Hezbollah spokesman Mohammed Afif denied the group is trying to disrupt the truce. “These accusations are part of an American-Israeli campaign against Hezbollah,” he said.

Hezbollah has been recruiting Palestinian militants since the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian fighting in 2000, mainly targeting members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, which is affiliated with Fatah.

They are also getting involved in weapons smuggling to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and training operatives from the Islamic militant group Hamas.

After helping stoke the uprising for more than four years, Iran now hopes to disrupt the cease-fire and bring down Abbas, said Israeli analyst Joseph Alpher. “Iran is . . . the only Muslim state that refuses to recognize the right of Israel to exist,” he said. “You can’t explain it by realpolitik. It’s about ideology.”

After Abbas’ Jan. 9 election victory, Iran issued an invitation. The Palestinian leader has not turned Tehran down, but appears in no rush to set a date for a trip that could undercut his growing ties with the West.

Most of the squads operate in the city of Nablus and the nearby town of Jenin – the main reason why these two areas are the last to be handed over the Palestinian security control.

Five other towns, where the Hezbollah influence is far weaker, will return to Palestinian control over the next three weeks, as part of an agreement reached by Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon at this week’s summit.

After their meeting, the two leaders also declared an end to hostilities. Abbas made the pledge after receiving promises from Hamas, Islamic Jihad and most Al Aqsa cells that they will halt attacks. The Hezbollah-funded Al Aqsa squads are now the only holdouts against a cease-fire.

Just hours after the summit ended, Al Aqsa members shot at an Israeli car south of Nablus, causing no injuries but sending a clear message that they would not abide by the cease-fire.

Ala Sanakra, who commands an Al Aqsa cell in the Balata refugee camp on the outskirts of Nablus, said his men attacked the car in retaliation for an army arrest raid in the camp. Sanakra refused to say whether he is getting money from Hezbollah.

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Iran sucks.

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Cran, I’m sure there are some nice people in Iran too. You just never hear about them because unlike some of their neighbors, they know how to mind their own damn business.

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On my one and only trip to Israel in 1997, I travelled througout Israel, the west bank (Ramallah), and Jordan, and wherever I went, I said a prayer for peace. When I visited Yad Vashemn, the Jewish Holocaust Memorial, high on a hilltop in Jerusalem, I was especially moved. As a Christian coming from the heartland of Indiana, I didn’t expect to have such a heartfelt reaction that I experienced. When I walked underground, saw the candles burning, and listened to the voices of all of the Jewish children that were killed during the Holocaust, I was deeply moved.

I don’t think that it is true that there will never be peace in this part of the world. I do agree that the nations of the world have a lot of work to do to bring this vision of peace into fruition. I hope that we can bring it about despite all of the negative influences that are currently present.

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There will never be any understanding of why peace is so unreachable if you think it’s all one-sided, as indicated in that article. The Israeli government was establish through terrorism, and the suffering that the Palestinian people have endured since has included massacres, land grabs, demoralization, genocide, torture, humiliation, and every kind of atrocity you can think of. A few very powerful and influential countries have ignored these atrocities, and the Palestinian people have been driven to a point of desperation the likes of which you and I will never know. They are driven to these extremes because no matter how high they raised their voice through legal channels, the condemnations and resolutions against Israel’s atrocities from the UN have been vetoed and ignored by countries like the US.

I’ll put it this way; (it’s an over-simplification, but it might help,) if someone is standing on your foot, slapping you and pulling out your hair, and you try to get someone to help stop them, and those people pretend they didn’t hear you – you kick the person in the balls until they get off – even if their bigger than you. The Palestinians have been driven to that point by no fault of their own.

If anyone wants peace between the Palestinians and Israelis they must first return what rightfully belongs to the Palestinians and treat them with dignity. The current peace agreement is more or less just unilateral semantics that favors Israel, and the Palestinians who’ve been resisting the Israeli government weren’t allowed into the negotiations. It’s true that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, but the Israeli government is a terrorist state lead by a terrorist war criminal. If they’re allowed in the negotiations, then Hezbollah should also be included.

For these, and many other reasons, peace in that part of the world is still very unlikely, and anyone foolish enough to see it as just a Palestinian problem is living in denial. (And I’m not talking about a river in Egypt.)

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So, Israeli terrorism is bad, but…

I’ll put it this way; (it’s an over-simplification, but it might help,) if someone is standing on your foot, slapping you and pulling out your hair, and you try to get someone to help stop them, and those people pretend they didn’t hear you – you kick the person in the balls until they get off – even if their bigger than you. The Palestinians have been driven to that point by no fault of their own.

…Palestinian terrorism is understandable? Why the double standard?

For these, and many other reasons, peace in that part of the world is still very unlikely, and anyone foolish enough to see it as just a Palestinian problem is living in denial. (And I’m not talking about a river in Egypt.)

You mean these Palestinians?

From Hal Lindsey:

Who Are the Palestinians, Really?

In my book, “The Everlasting Hatred, the Roots of Jihad,” I trace the history of the people now being called the “Palestinians.” The land of Israel became known as Palestine after the Roman destruction of Israel in A.D. 70. It was ruled by many different invaders for the following 19 centuries.

In the 7th century, the Muslims took control of Palestine for the first time. From A.D. 635 until 1917, the Muslims ruled it, with only a few interruptions by the European Crusaders. During that span of time, the land was reduced to total desolation. Many people who traveled the land in the 19th century remarked on the fact that Palestine was as desolate as the moon and very few people lived there.

In 1867, Mark Twain remarked about his visit to the Holy Land in his book, “The Innocents Abroad.” He lamented, “Stirring scenes occur in the valley [of Jezreel] no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings.”

By all eyewitness accounts of that era, Palestine was a total desolation. There were virtually no trees and no people. Because of lack of trees, the weather changed and it rarely ever rained. The irrigation systems of the once fertile valleys were all destroyed, rendering most areas into malaria-ridden swamps. The terraces of the mountainsides were torn down, causing terrible erosion that left only barren rocks. This was the condition of Palestine by the beginning of the 19th century.

It was at this time that Jews began to flee severe persecutions in Russia and Eastern Europe. In the mid-1800s, some Jews came to Palestine and, with the generous aid of some successful Jews like the Rothschilds, began to buy property from Muslim Ottoman Turks. The Muslims thought the land was worthless anyway, so they sold it to the “dumb Jews” for extremely inflated prices.

To everyone’s amazement, the Jews were very successful at reclaiming the land. Many of them died from malaria and the rigorous life the work demanded, but they performed an agricultural miracle that made the land very productive again. As a result of their success, poor migrant workers from the surrounding Muslim countries began to flood in to work for the Jews. The Jews literally became victims of their own success – almost all of the people calling themselves “Palestinians” today are the descendants of those migrant workers.

Much more is said and documented on this subject in my book. But the main point is this: The Muslims have repeatedly shown they understand these things. Since they know that the so-called “Palestinians” are not a homogeneous people, but rather a mixed conglomerate of workers with no cohesive organizational or political skills, they have repeatedly not given them a state.

When the Hashemite Tribe, who were rulers over Mecca and Medina for centuries, were driven out by the Saudis, the British gave them control over the vastly greater numbers of “migrant workers” in Trans Jordan. The British said this would be, in effect, “The State of Palestine.” Instead, the Hashemites, who make up only about 20 percent of the population, turned it into their own kingdom and called it the Kingdom of Jordan.

When the Jordanians and Egyptians controlled the so-called West Bank and the Gaza Strip for 19 years (1948 to 1967), there was never a thought of giving the disorganized mass of “migrant workers” a state. Why? Because they knew there was no cohesive, homogeneous people known as “Palestinians.”

The current efforts of Jordan and Egypt (and all the rest of the Muslim Middle East nations) to give these same people a state is clearly a ploy to get a foothold inside Israel. It is a strategic accommodation to establish a base from which the final assault against Israel can be made. What they couldn’t do militarily is now being facilitated through the United States and the E.U.

Muslims will never accept a permanent presence of infidels in what they claim is sacred Islamic soil. Especially Jewish infidels for which the Koran reserves its most vehement condemnations. In their minds, the Koran and Allah will not let them accept Jews in what they view as their third holiest site.

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Especially Jewish infidels for which the Koran reserves its most vehement condemnations.

And i always thought it was us Pagans. :devil:

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Well, you too, then. :laughing:

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:sniffle:

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When there comes a time of peace in Israel, most Christians know it’s over. Believers in other deities do not have the ‘advance warning system’ available … and scorn the very thought of Biblical predictions of “End Times”. Here’s a few interesting tidbits from an article by Jan Markell, founder and director of Olive Trees Ministry, Inc. :

… There are about 1.3 billion Muslims in the world today. How many of them advocate the destruction of America, the “Great Satan,” and Israel, the “Little Satan,” we do not know. Many say that at least 10% of Islam embraces the ideology of jihad. That’s a number still in the millions. We know that just nineteen of these dedicated-to-Allah jihadists did unspeakable damage to us on 9/11. Just a handful detonating the missing Soviet suitcase-sized nukes in major cities around the world could halt civilization as we know it. So let’s not focus on numbers, but rather on dedication and the incentive of heavenly rewards for the foot soldiers.

… We are engaged in a world war that is not winnable. The enemy hides in caves, has no allegiance to capitals or flags, has no borders, but does bow to radical dictators and mullahs. There are Muslims that believe its most despicable deeds will bring heavenly reward. They are like the tin man in “The Wizard of Oz”—they have no heart. That was seen in the recent slaughter of children by Chechan Muslim terrorists in Russia. You can kill thousands but millions remain who are religiously-motivated more so than your average evangelical Christian quite known for our apathy.

Please don’t hear me dwelling on gloom and doom here! While we may never stop the surge of radical Islam and their terror tactics, we should see the glass half full and not half empty. We are clearly in those “perilous times” of II Timothy 3 which is a last days’ scenario. More than ever, we should look up and know that our redemption draws nigh [Luke 21:28]. And more than ever we should be winning the lost while there is still time.

Peace is not really a viable possibility in that area of the world. The in-fighting here at the Chiff demonstrates perfectly the “why” – no one sees both sides of the equation. If you are Pro-Palestinian, Israel is the terrorist nation - if you are pro-Israeli, Palestinians are the terrorists. As far as the United Nations are concerned, the United States and Israel are in a distinct minority. The membership lists the USA as the sole “Christian” member nation and Israel as the sole “Jewish” member nation – and 57 (I think) “Muslim” member nations. I see an inequity there, but I’m a Christian …

Happy fighting, y’all. Hasn’t changed for 2000 years, not gonna change now. :roll:

~Judy

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Perhaps someone who accepts Lindsey’s views about the origins of the Palestinians would like to address the evidence reported here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians

I assume Lindsey does take the trouble to go into matters like these (quoting from the above link):


As genetic techniques have advanced, it has become possible to look directly into the question of the ancestry of the Palestinians. In recent years, many genetic surveys have suggested that Jews and Palestinians (and in some cases other Levantines) are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [4] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12743242) [5] (http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html) [6] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8838913) [7] (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50C15F83F5D0C778DDDAC0894DA404482). (this collection (http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html) contains more links to genetic studies of Jewish and middle eastern populations.) These studies look at the prevalence of specific inherited genetic differences (polymorphism) among populations, which then allow the relatedness of these populations to be determined, and their ancestry to be traced back (see population genetics). These differences can be the cause of genetic disease or be completely neutral (see Single nucleotide polymorphism) ; they can be inherited maternally (mitochondrial DNA), paternally (Y chromosome), or as a mixture from both parents ; the results obtained may vary from polymorphism to polymorphism. One study [8] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11935342)on congenital deafness identified an allele only found in Palestinian and Ashkenazi communities, suggesting a common origin ; an investigation [9] (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12820706) of a Y-chromosome polymorphism found Lebanese, Palestinian, and Sephardic populations to be particularly closely related ; a third study [10] (http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:SsKy0fp013gJ:www.idesign.fl.net.au/camel_/tidbits/Being_Jewish_Doesn’t_Mean_You’re_Different/The%2520Origin%2520of%2520Palestinians%2520and%2520Their%2520Genetic%2520Relatedness%2520With%2520Other%2520Mediterranean%2520Populations.pdf+palestinian+genetics&hl=en), looking at Human leukocyte antigen differences among a broad range of populations, found Palestinians to be particularly closely related to Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews, as well as Middle-Eastern and Mediterranean populations. (The latter study by Antonio Arnaiz-Villena has been the subject of intense controversy, it was retracted by the journal and removed from its website, leading to further controversy; the main accusations made were that the authors used their scientific findings to justify making one-sided political proclamations in the paper; that the retraction followed lobbyist pressure because the results contradicted certain political beliefs; some suggested that the broad scientific interpretation was based on too narrow data [11] (http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/Dynapage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v415/n6868/full/415115b_fs.html), whereas others support the scientific content as valid - for more information on the controversy : [12] (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/326/7401/1262), [13] (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,605798,00.html), [14] (http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.11.30/news7.html), [15] (http://www.tufts.edu/~skrimsky/PDF/nature_genetics.PDF).) If this close relatedness is true, it would confirm both Jews’ and Palestinians’ historical claims, suggesting a common Northwest Semitic ancestry. However, the results are complex, much work remains to be carried out, and partial results can be interpreted to suit diverse political agendas.

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At this point in time, he main reason
why there is no peace in Israel
is because the two countries that could do something
about it, have governments that profit from the violence.
In both countries there is a large minority that
is disgusted and fed up with the violence,
but these groups are not large or cohesive enough
to win an ellection.

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I’m pessimistic about peace in the Middle East any time soon. But if you asked me to name my top ten obstacles to peace, I doubt that Hezbollah would figure amongst them. I have no doubt that they will play a prominent part in the short term. But focus on them obscures the deeper reasons for their being attractive to groups like Hamas. I wouldn’t care much if I didn’t distrust the reasons for focussing on a group I would regard as simply opportunistic and temporary bit-part players currently going through their cameo appearance.

First, no serious analysis of the obstacles to peace could completely ignore the part played by the Israeli right, known to be willing to assassinate their own leaders to obstruct the peace process. But lets set that aside and just ask about the role of Hezbollah.

Here’s some background most of which was not mentioned in that article we began with. Hezbollah are a Shia group formed to drive Israel from Lebanon and to establish an Iranian style theocracy in Lebanon. After having succeeded in their first objective they modified the second to trying to ensure that the 40% of Lebanese who are Shias are not disadvantaged politically. Their ideas for a theocratic state were not popular even amongst their own people. They have now turned their attention also to the overthrow of Israel.

They were and probably still are funded by Iran and Syria but for entirely different reasons (deliberately?) obscured in that article. Iran supports them for ideological reasons; Syria for purely strategic reasons. Remember, Syria wants the Golan heights back from Israel. The alliance between Hezbollah and Syria is something of a standing joke in the Arab world, so much so that it is referred to as ‘the loveless marriage’. Syria is a left-leaning, Sunni, secular dictatorship and, as such, couldn’t be further from the ideal of an Islamic state that originally drove Hezbollah and at some level no doubt still does. If you don’t understand the significance of the Shia/Sunni divide in the Moslem world, just check any website devoted to explaining the theological differences—well, any website not devoted to Israeli or American propaganda that is. Iran has almost certainly made attempts to destabalise the Syrian regime.

Hamas is a radical Sunni group, like Hezbollah in wanting an Islamic state but unlike Hezbollah in being Sunni. My understanding of the situation in the occupied territories is that there is an overwhelming desire for a fairly secular, democratic, state. My guess is that Hamas appeals because they get things done and not becasue of their ideology. The PLO under Arafat were, ideologically, much more like Syria than like Iran. It makes sense to assume that any marriage between Hezbollah and the broader Palestinian cause would be every bit as loveless as that between Hezbollah and Syria.

Just ask yourself this. If Hezbollah were destroyed tomorrow and their place as funders of Hamas were taken by, say, a group of Saudi Sunnis, would any Palestinians be terribly upset? I seriously doubt it. To be sure, hezbollah are the only Arab group to have some sort of military victory over Israel, so they will always be an inspiration to anti-Israeli groups, but it would be naive to think they matter any more than that.

Now ask yourself this. If American covert operations offered to pay Hamas more than Hezbollah not to strike against Israel, would they accept? I take it that the answer is that they certainly wouldn’t. (They might take the money, though.) The reasons go much deeper than the actions and financial support of any non-Palestinian troublemakers. Within living memory, the Palestinians had what they regard as their land taken from them and given to immigrants or to Arab neighbours. Who, under similar circumstances, wouldn’t harbour the desire to get it back? All of it? It’s unrealistic as probably nearly every Palestinian knows. But who could blame them for harbouring a deep sense of dispossession and injustice? The only realistic way forward is simply to accept that they are going to feel like this for the foreseeable future. They would be quite mad not to. After all, in Israel, they have proof positive that even 2,000 years is not too long to be alienated from the land you call your own if circumstances go your way. The very source of their predicament is pretty much the gurantee that they will never lose hope.

How long does it take before a people simply to give up hope. For Jews, 2,000 years was not too long. For Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians, at what point would they have given up the thought of reclaiming most of their ancestral lands? Unlike the Palestinians, one suspects they didn’t know what was happening to them.

Whatever the short and medium term solution to this problem, it would be fanciful to suppose that Palestinians will give up dreaming. It’s also utterly obscure to me why anybody would expect them to. Even if the Palestinian people were, as some author was suggesting above, assembled mongrel-style in the 19th century, that is exactly the way the current Australian population got together. Would anyone seriously suggest that that current population should simply accept being be dispossessed by would-be incomers?

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TooTs…I think you’re confusing the Koran and
Christian Fundamentalism. :slight_smile:

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In case you were wondering who Hal Lindsey is—I certainly was—I came upon this website:

http://www.virginiawater.co.uk/christchurch/articles/hallindsey.HTM

Certainly makes for interesting reading. I read it quickly so maybe I missed the bit about his credentials in population analysis through measures of genetic distance. Perhaps someone else can fill in the gaps.

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I think they’re both the same.

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I’m in agreement with Wombat’s analysis and view, and in my first post I mistakenly wrote, “Hezbollah” when I intended to write, “Hamas.”

Hal Lindsey is a Christian Zionist, undoubtedly believes in the Rapture and just sees the whole scenario as part of the Apocalypse. This is all very dangerous thinking and detrimental for any chance of peace in the Middle East. I could copy and paste tons of articles in this forum to support my views, but I’ll spare you. I prefer to contribute my own thoughts instead.

The idea that Israel is picking up where they left off and peacefully developing desert land into settlements is ludicrous – unless your definition of desert lands includes olive orchards, schools, homes, hospitals, water supplies etc. If you have no respect for the Palestinian people and view them as vermin trespassing your real estate, then I suppose it would be easy to overlook these things and up-root their orchards and bulldoze there houses… sometimes with people still inside. I suppose shooting down innocent men women and children would come easy too, but the rest of the world isn’t likely to share your vision – especially Arabs.

Blackhawk writes: “…Palestinian terrorism is understandable? Why the double standard?”

There’s no “double standard” but you have to take into account that the Israelis introduced terrorism when they established their homeland in the last century. My allegory was not intended to justify terrorism, but rather to put it into perspective. The Israeli government wants the world to believe that Hamas was unprovoked, and that the Israeli government is simply an innocent victim of terrorism. (Israeli citizens are innocent victims of their own government’s policies towards Palestinians when they are attacked) The truth is that the Palestinian people are indeed innocent victims and have been driven to desperate measures because nations like the US, that should be supporting their cause, are instead turning a blind eye, propping up and arming the perpetrators of violence against Palestinians.

Another role the US plays in preventing any chance of peace in the Middle East is that they have nuclear weapons installed and ready for use all around the Middle East. (That’s where the WMDs really are.) Israel’s extensive nuclear weapons program was conducted under tight secrecy, and when it emerged – it shocked and surprised everyone. They are the regions biggest nuclear threat. The US missiles are deployed in bases all around Iraq and Iran, as well as on ships in the Persian Gulf. As Wombat points out, US presence represents the minority in the region, and we are seen as the aggressor. The US has the arrogance and pomposity to believe that only they and their clients can be allowed to possess WMDs – even when their clients are aggressive terrorist states like Israel

Think about what our reaction was to the Cuban Missile Crisis and you might get an idea of how the Muslim world views the threat of our presence and what it means in their region. I bet Israel is very much viewed by Arab states the way America saw Castro’s Cuba during the Cold War.

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Especially Jewish infidels for which the Koran reserves its most vehement condemnations.

This is an out-and-out blatant misunderstanding of the Koran. Have you ever actually read the Koran, Blackhawk? It does detail one incident in which Jews who allied themselves with the pagan establishment in Mecca against Mohammed and his followers were executed. The Koran makes no comment whatsoever about Jews (or Christians) as infidels, quite the opposite, in fact. As “people of the book,” Mohammed urged tolerance and respect towards Jews and Islamic history is rife with examples of revered scholars in places such as Baghdad, Al-Andalus, etc. who happened to be Jewish. Jews certainly fared better under Islamic rule in Spain than they did after the Reconquista. Modern Muslim contempt for Jews dates back only to the Zionist movement in the past century and the failure to create a Palestinian nation-state in the wake of the thoroughly flawed diplomatic process that ended in Israel’s creation in 1948. When Musilms began to add anti-Jewish slander to Arabic, they had no indiginous terms and had to co-opt racial slurs and other disgusting terms from Europe and America.

Nothing else to say. I’m definitely with Jack and Wombat on this one.

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Well, I hope you at least read this reply. I didn’t say what you’re quoting me as saying, Pitchfork. I was quoting Hal Lindsey, word for word (please go back and read my post, which was then quoted by someone following me as having been said by me). It was part of the overall quote, which I “cut and pasted” without editing myself. I was quoting it in regards to where the term “Palestinian” came from, my point being that 50 years ago, there were folks known as Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs. Now the term is used in an artificial context as a weapon of propaganda.

In regards to having read the Koran, no I haven’t, but I recently read a chapter in Tony Campolo’s book, the chapter title being “Is Islam really an evil religion?” He concludes that it isn’t, and as evidence of things that aren’t generally known, he gives many quotes that have really opened my eyes. Among them:

Jesus is the author of creation: Sura #43, Zukhruf: 63

Jesus was born of a virgin: Sura #19, Maryam 20-21

Jesus lived a sinless live: Sura #19, Maryam 17, 19

Jesus ascended into heaven: Sura #3, AL-i-Imram: 55

Jesus is coming again: Sura #3, AL-i-Imram:45

My apologies for any typos in these references. I find the Koran a fascinating book, and plan to buy one for myself.

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… tossing a little more fuel to the fire and running …

Sorry, guys, I think it’s funny - in a sad way. Can anyone actually believe that Israel and the United States are completely to blame for all the problems of the Middle East? That the USA is responsible for someone strapping explosives to his body, wandering into a crowded night club and hitting the switch? Israel & Jordan were both created by the British. If Israel is an illegal ‘state’, then why isn’t Jordan?

~Judy