Help me pick an upgrade D whistle!

Whistle
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I realize this is a common topic so I’ll try to be specific.

I’m looking for an upgrade to my Freeman Blackbird. I love the easy transition between the first and second octaves on the Blackbird, the intonation, the sweet sound, and ease of playing especially in the second octave. While the intonation isn’t perfect, it’s very close and I can easily blow it right in tune on any given note.

I would like something with a little more volume in the first octave, but just a little more, and that would take maybe just a little more air, but not much. And I’d like a better forked C. The oxx-ooo fingering on the Blackbird is sharp. I use oxx-xox, which is still a little sharp but closer, and it sounds a little muffled. It’s workable though. The C is still better than on my stock Oak.

I’ve played stock generations, Oak, feadog and such. The Blackbird is a big upgrade. I also have a Freeman Generation in high D which is also great. It has a bit more chiff or airness which is kind of cool, but I find it just a bit harder to blow it in tune especially in the second octave. It’s intonation is good, but not quite as good as the Blackbird.

I had a Ralph Sweet decades ago that I sold. I regret that. It was great in the first octave, but a little more recorder like. The top half of the second octave was much too hard to blow and shrill. I did use the Sweet though in one song in a band I used to play in where a more recorder like, less “Irish” sound seemed appropriate. But I sold the Sweet because I liked the Blackbird more.

I’ve listened to reviews online by CutiePi, Whistletutor and others. I really liked the sound of the Burke, but it’s expensive and I haven’t been able to communicate with him, after leaving voicemail and emails. That concerns me a little. (I live kind of close and was asking if I could buy a whistle in person). Also Burkes are expensive.

I also really like sound of the Lir whistles. I maybe slightly preferred the Original over the Pro but it’s a close call. Lir told me yesterday that they will be offering other keys at the end of the month.

I’ve started playing in church, so I will need to add more keys eventually but I can build up gradually. Intonation is important there.

I’m a classically trained woodwind player (oboe, some saxphone, etc). So I know how to breathe and support. Back pressure per se doesn’t bother me (the oboe is extreme in that regard). But I just like the easy blowing feel of the Blackbird, the smoothness and ease of transitioning to the second octave, and the fact that the notes are close enough to being in tune that I don’t have to work too hard to get things to sound good. It’s just pleasant to play. But like I said a little more volume in the first octave and a better C would be nice. I’m not wedded to the exact Blackbird sound - different tone colors are nice too - but I do love the playability. I also realize that playablity is subjective. But this is what I like.

It’s hard to gauge how something plays by listening to reviews on line, so I’m looking for feedback. I’m aware of Lir, Burke, Compass, Wild, Sopros - what do they play like, what would you recommend for me given my preferences?

Thanks!

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I’d say look for a Sindt or one of the clones. I’ve only played the original Sindt so someone else can chime in regarding which of the clones are best. If you don’t like the C natural tuning on the Sindt you can easily tape the top hole or use a Generation body with the Sindt head.

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A local shop has a few of Tommy Martin’s ‘Thornton’ whistles in the window. That reminded me they’re out there but not often mentioned here. Tommy’s sound (and an occasional poster here). And he is a working musician/maker, not a factory churning them out.

Could be an option or at least worth looking into.

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A few thoughts for you. Firstly, I haven’t found a high D whistle that I noticed any trouble at all switching between octaves. I start noticing differences on Bb and lower. So either it’s me, or it’s negligible on a high whistle.

Secondly, I’ve got maybe 20 high whistles, and my Burke C definifitely feels the most refined and professional, and I absolutely love the timbre and how it plays, but I can’t say it’s the best.

My Mazur D has the best tuning, and it’s so good you can get some strange notes by cross-fingering instead of half-holing. But it’s also a hard blowing whistle, and WAY louder than average in the top notes. I think it’s great, but if you’re playing in a church, it might be excessive.

I have a Killarney, and I love it. Worth a look for an upgrade for sure, IMO. You won’t be disappointed.

Dixon is worth a look, with a decent range of whistles under $100. I have a couple and they’re both good. DX005 feels more refined, if you want a specific model.

The whistle that surprised me the most so far, though, was a Susato. You can get a Susato Kelishek D for under $70, and it’s a fantastic whistle. It’s got a lot more complex tone than all the clones, and there are plenty (Sondery is popular, and good), and it’s becoming one of my favorites.

I haven’t played a Blackbird, but I do have several other Freeman Tweaked models in various keys, including a Mellow Dog, and I have noticed that they have a weaker C natural than most of the others. I think if that’s a concern, just about anything will be stronger.

Honestly, sight unseen, just a solid recommendation? Killarney/Lir or Susato. Unless you want to put the money up for the Burke, which you will not regret.

EDIT: played my susato again tonight just to see and it’s a high back pressure whistle, so the octave jump is gonna be harder and also louder than average, same with the Mazur

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A Burke D will set you up for success long term and seems a logical next step , or two, up. On the scale of instrument prices it’s completely worth the investment. Good resale value as well. Skimp on groceries for a week or two and get a Burke :slight_smile:

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I have a Blackbird. You might get what you want from his Mellow Dog. It’s a little louder and has a little more edge.

I have one of Tommy Martin’s Thornton V6 whistles. It’s a lot louder and brighter than the Blackbird. I like it a lot, and the price is good, but if you want something that’s only a little louder that might not be the best choice. His wooden whistles might be something to consider. They have a softer, gentler sound than the metal whistles, but they are $. He has some youtube videos comparing them.

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Love my brass Burke session high D. Nothing I’ve played comes close to how sweet it is, and so easy to play.

Also, the resilience to clogging is very good, which is important for me too!

Expensive? Only for a whistle! Look at classical instruments, or even guitars and see how much 400 bucks gets you! Well worth the investment, if the sweet tone suits you?

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I found the Burkes to be difficult for playing in a group. The pitch is very tight, which sounds like a good thing unless the person next to you isn’t on EXACTLY the same tuning for that note. You may recall all the jokes about getting two flute players in tune. Most other wind instruments (even flutes) give you more room to adjust using the embouchure. (And of course the oboe is an extreme case.) I also found the high Burkes to be somewhat sharp and aggressive, especially compared to the Lir, which is very sweet and stays sweet into the start of the third octave.

Think about the difference in sound between a narrow and wide bore. Lir whistles are near one extreme end. Burke is in the middle. Kerry busker/optima and Whistlesmith are very wide. The wider-bore instruments need a careful touch (and sometimes different fingering) on the second octave, but they have a more resonant tone quality. The Kerry ones are as loud as the Burke (maybe louder) but more mellow.

Also consider how much you plan to use accidentals, which depends on what kinds of music you like to play. Larger holes are easier to half-cover, esp. the lowest hole.

Also consider how loud you need to be. A Burke or a Kerry whistle is vastly louder than a Blackbird or Lir.

You could look at the Irish Flute Store online. Their stock turns over fast and they often have high quality used wooden whistles.

Notice also that shipping from Europe/UK has started to work again, and they don’t always even collect the tariff. So you may be able to get (say) a Kerry whistle as fast as (say) a Burke.

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If you figure how many hours you are going to play a whistle and amortize that over the years you are pretty ok even with the most expensive whistle out there. We make a mistake comparing prices from the bottom end. Highest price whistles will very very good, no longer made and hard to find. The highest price readily available whistle you can find right now is the Abell. I resisted getting one for years and was thrilled when I finally had him make one for me. And it has become my favorite whistle for playing in sessions because it seems to like to be in tune with everyone else. Burkes in both metals are very nice. The brass is a bit mellower to my ear, the aluminum can be a bit for birdlike. Both are very very good. I came to that rather subjective conclusion when I had a friend play both her aluminium and my brass in the same session. Your ears may vary. John Sindt may or may not be making whistles. Sindtwhistle@aol.com will give you a hint at his age. His prices were quite reasonable when I purchased a few right before covid, and one 3 years ago (Eb, D, C, and finally an A). I had a Killarney that I passed along when the Sindts came in. There was something just slightly different that made me like his more. With your ear of an oboe player you may want to consider an Abell if you can afford it. I have no experience with the Lir so I no help there.

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