Thanks Cork - good advice there - I think I’m going to have to be brave and put a clip up sometime soon for appraisal/criticism…
Mando is sweet isn’t it? Tone production seems so much easier than the flute and the finger spacing is a breeze, at least for the melodies of the Irish repertoire. It is physically less demanding, at the outset. While the learning curve isn’t quite as steep, mastering the mandolin probably requires the same dedication as the flute. So my beautiful +100 year old Gibson A sits there gathering dust because I just don’t have the time to take it to the next level…say, like this guy:
My 2 cents, SB,
I basically stopped playing flute for decades because I was not interested in either classical or jazz which I had played when younger. I then developed my singing (decent) and my guitar playing (chord banger) and played what was in my head–Beatles tunes, 60’s stuff I liked, 90’s pop/rock. Played bass (not good) in a band. I only came back to the flute after discovering Irish flute.
That is to say, I play what’s in my head and what’s interesting, compelling and gratifying for me. You’ll always develop as a musician no matter what you play or, to a certain extent, even if you don’t play at all through listening and thinking. Life is too short to do something that’s not gratifying or compelling.
jason
I think improving on flute requires, for people like myself,
deliberate practice. It’s a demanding instrument.
One thing I found that helps me, anyway, is playing
at some length, maybe 20 minutes to half an hour,
with a metronome set quite slow. Playing tunes I know
well already, as well as new ones.
Flute seems to be a ‘bottom up’ affair. It’s basic things
done simply and well that make one good. Very slow,
sustained practice, improves one from the bottom up.
Also if there is something that is a difficult or rough,
playing it very slowly, repeatedly, is quite helpful.
Also in tunes there are intervals between notes
and interesting fingerings. Exploring these slowly.
At some point this can become very pleasant, so that
one welcomes difficulties. Each tune is a universe
with it’s own underlying structure, and one explores
it on the flute, one breaks down complex passages
into simple parts and investigates the parts.
I think it is very good to practice scales and arpeggios,
especially when warming up. To begin each practice
session playing basics, and nothing is too basic.
And this includes long tones. The slow playing
will help embouchure too.
Always return to the basics.
Finally I think playing a higher pitched flute, e.g.
one in A or G, is very good for developing embouchure.
It does what overtone practice does, more or less,
but you play tunes and that’s even better.
Always it seems the people who are best at an instrument
play it in a very simple way, the basics have become
smooth and definite, and I think the sort of practice
I’ve described helps that. FWIW. The results are
worth the labor.
Thank you. I’m glad you all understand.
Part of the reason I pick up the mandolin so much is that we have an old-time jam once a week and an Irish jam twice a month. The Irish jam sometimes gets canceled. The old-time music is easier to pick up by ear on the fly. No dirty looks from across the room when you try to learn the tune while people are playing. If all else fails, I can just strum the open A string all night and people are fine with that. They just want you to have fun and be a part of.
Irish music is like my stern piano teacher. Don’t break too many rules. Watch out for so-and-so. He doesn’t tolerate this-and-that. Maybe it’s the association with my mean piano teacher and the exacting world of classical music that is making me gravitate to the mandolin.
Thing is, I like to hear Irish music better than old-time. I don’t even play old-time at home on my mandolin. It’s all Irish all the time. I just can’t play the mandolin well enough to bring to the session. So I have to keep up the flute so I can get my Irish fix and enjoy the session.
I am a jack of all trades master of none musician. I play an embarrassingly large number of instruments. I am nothing like serious about any of them but fairly good a few of them.
It’s all about time. If you dink around long enough, you’ll eventually get fairly good. This method takes years but works. 
If you actually want to be very, very good you’ll have to practice and whatnot (or so I’ve heard).
I should get serious. Sadly, I am not a serious enough person to do so.
Doc
Firstly I would not worry about playing at sessions. Sessions can be very enjoyable as a non-participant ( in the sense of not being a player ) and there is no need to rush into playing yourself. There are a lot of benefits to session playing but also a lot of pitfalls even for mature musicians. Session playing can create a pressure to improve performance but for the wrong reasons. Music shoud never become a competition sport or an activity that attempts to glorify the ego. Real music doesn’t come from that place. Sessions can encourage these kinds of tendencies - which exist in all of us. In turn we lose sight of why we started to play to begin with. Also you should not look for easy ways out simply to be a part of something and be able , in some fashion, to play along.
I played mandolin a long time ago but only for a short while. Never took it too seriously though. My limited experience of other instruments compared to playing flute or even whistle, is that some of them appear to offer more instant gratification. There is little instant gratification to be had from a flute. That being said, the apparently easier instruments will only seem easier for a short time. So long as one has a reasonably good quality instrument, the struggle to make good music is ultimately never with the instrument ( whatever it may happen to be ) but with ourselves. You have to choose to play what you most love.
I agree with the person who earlier advised you to get rid of the mandolin. It sounds as though it is simply confusing you and getting in the way of progress ( on either instrument ). Also if you are relatively new to the traditional music of Ireland, and were not exposed to it from an early age, you have to understand that complete and total immersion in the music is imperative if you are serious about becoming even a mediocre player. Your problems with grasping the ‘flow’ of the music come entirely from your lack of familiarity with it…unless you are a chronic chain smoker like myself!!! At a basic level, knowing when to breath for instance, is actually quite instinctual. You have heard it done countless times, it is part of the fabric of the music, and that ‘technique’ has been absorbed, and learnt, as naturally as learning to speak as a child. Later on you try to refine things further, just as we may or may not do with speech. Not everybody speaks the Queens English or Cockney rhyming slang…but most of us have a basic grasp of things. As such you may seriously want to consider not only giving up the mandolin but also your interest in other forms of music - for awhile at least. A kind of cross-contamination can occur if you are not strongly grounded in the music.
Lastly, always constantly remind yourself of what it is you love…what it was that drew you to the flute initially. The strength of your love removes all sense of your practice being soul destroying drudgery…just a few thoughts for what they are worth.
Thanks
Nate
If I were to follow the spirit of your advice, Nate, I would quit the flute and stick to the mandolin, not the other way around. I enjoy playing with other people. I enjoy the social aspect of it. Playing at home by myself is not very satisfying. Playing to recordings is boring and frustrating because almost none of them play back in the key they tunes are actually played in.
We have only 2 sessions a month. I can play old-time once a week or more. I should quit Irish and focus on old-time. But I like Irish and I like the flute.
So I guess I will just soldier on, bad as I am. Maybe eventually I will play something well. I’m hoping so because someday, when I’m homeless and living in my van, I will need a means of making money.
I play whistle in our old time sessions here in St. Louis
and sometimes flute too. It works very well, especially
whistle. People are glad I’m there and, as you say,
the tunes are easy to learn. If the folks you are dealing
with are as laid back as you describe, they won’t mind
(I’ve never personally had trouble playing these
instruments in any old time session).
Old time tunes sound
great on our instruments.
If you haven’t tried it already, you might
take your whistle to the next session,
or maybe first learn some tunes
at home. Piece of cake.
And not without its musical rewards.
No!
Screw your piano teacher. After all, there never was a piano in proper tune, for equal temperament sucks, plain and simple.
And, never mind “so-and-so”, for perhaps he could be due for a rectal examination. Again, screw your piano teacher!
Now, and my speaking as a Baroque student, as well, I’m here to suggest to you that ITM simply calls for individual interpretation, that is, as music it becomes just what you, and not me or anybody else, could make of it.
So, while a particular tune could be recognized as being just that tune, apparently there also could be an individual, your, license to improvise, ad hoc.
My having been here at the C&F board just long enough to appreciate your abilities, Diane, I sense that you have great musical potential.
Never mind the technicalities, and just follow your heart.
I have a high expectation of you.
You have what it takes.
What’s all this about people who suck at the flute, suck at the trumpet, etc.?
Now I am only an amateur fluter (I never say flautist - it sounds so pretentious), but one thing I have learned about the flute (and, I assume the trumpet, but don’t take my word for it), is that in order to reach any level of proficiency, you have to BLOW, not suck.
Try that, my lad, and it will revolutionise your playing! Let me know how you get on.
On a more serious note, I think that learning any instrument is difficult and you reach a point where you feel very frustrated. Just don’t give up. Persevere and you will eventually penetrate that barrier and your playing will suddenly go to the next level up (until you reach a barrier at that level and again have to work to break through it).
It has been said that it takes 1000 hours of practice to reach any decent level of skill on any serious instrument. That’s 30 minutes per day, 5 days a week, for nearly 8 years!!
My experience is that musical malaise and frustration can be a sign of progress. It seems to occur when you’ve made enough progress to realize how far you still have to go–and this can happen at many skill levels.
The way out, for me, has been to find fresh motivation: a new tune, a new ornamentation idea, focusing on one area of proficiency for a while (like tone or rhythm), etc. And sometimes stepping away for a little bit can be good, too, so the music or the instrument is a little fresher when you come back. (The only downside is that the embouchure takes a hit–as you’ve discovered.)
But if the instrument isn’t giving you joy, well, life’s too short. You’ll make the best progress when you find the instrument and musical style that gives you joy (not to say there won’t be periods of frustration!).
By the way, as for tunes on recordings being in non-standard keys, there are plenty of recordings of tunes in their normal keys, played on a D flute: for instance, the first two albums by Catherine McEvoy, Mike Rafferty’s albums, recordings with Jack Coen (the Branch Line, in particular, is wonderful for learning tunes), etc.
Yeah, Ok. I blow. Chunks.
You may well have blown “chunks”, but now that that’s over with, it’s time for you, Diane, to turn your musical mind inward, and to play it from there, from the heart.
I’ve said that before, and I’m not going to say it again, as a word to the wise could be sufficient, as a saying goes.
I think the only ‘chunks’ you should be blowing are the ‘chunks’ of tunes that are giving you trouble!
“Life as a fluter blows!
Life as a string player plucks!”
Arbo
I think the only ‘chunks’ you should be blowing are the ‘chunks’ of tunes that are giving you trouble!
“Life as a fluter blows!
Life as a string player plucks!”
Arbo
yes, this is nicely said.
I like it when a particular flute gets possessive.
Like when I awake in the morning and it calls me over and says,
"Take me to that stream and practise piece X there "
My other instruments don’t do this.
My wife and I walked by the sea with a beautiful sunset today.
At one point, during the immaculate sunset, I began to hear and hum what sounded like medieval Christian chant melody. I heard it as a flute.
It was so beautiful and haunting that when I got into the car
I had to play it out on the whistle I keep in my wife’s car for such occasions.
At home, I tried this out on different flutes but only the low C bamboo flute liked it.
Thats the one I like to play Flower of Magherally on and I found this latest audition to be a nice counter melody for it.
I shouldn’t really be doing this. I had strained my neck and shoulders from excessive fluting and my physiotherapist told me to rest from flute for a few days. I think I am going to have to take the flute to the clinic next time and the therapist can talk to the flute and persuade it to give me a break.
I hope you like this story Jim. It is true. Its kind of saying what you are saying but from a different angle. Do you see what I mean?
Yes, I see what you mean. I like the story very much.