hard/dark tone and breath control (was: The Dark Side, Luke)

Irish Flute
1

Hi all,

As a flute newcomer (having played only for several months), I’m obviously still working on my embouchure and tone quite a lot. I just re-read the very interesting “The Dark Side, Luke…” thread, but still have some additional questions on the issue of tone colour and breath control.

Up to this point, I have mostly been producing what Terry called a “nice” tone: round, full, mellow, with a feeling like my throat is quite open. On the grounds that any tone is better than no tone, I wasn’t entirely unhappy with it, although it is not the prototypical ITM flute tone.

What has led me to need to adjust is breath control. Playing that way is relatively open and relaxed, and I find (especially in the lower octave) that all of my breath is gone pretty quickly. This leads to quite a lot of huffing and puffing as I find myself taking breaths every bar or two (I still play slow!). It is this problem that has resulted in me adopting a much more focused embouchure, with a faster, tighter airstream and a more rigid diaphram, and resulting in a harder sound. As Jumbuk said in the previous thread, it’s like pushing the low D until it is ready to pop up an octave (and it often does!).

To my ear, this sounds a lot more like the hard flute sound that I associate with ITM, and it allows me to play for a considerably longer stretch between breaths because the airstream is so much more focused. So, regardless of rolling in headjoint/straight headjoint issues, Terry’s exercise was worthwhile to help discover the difference between these two different tone colours. But it also helped to resolve what I felt was a more serious issue, that of running out of breath too quickly.

But there remain a couple of issues. For one, when I play this way, sometimes the bottom three notes of the bottom octave pretty much disappear altogether. Can I assume that this hard tone with a more focused embouchure and faster/tighter airstream will get more consistent as I practice over time?

Another issue related to consistency is tone quality. While I can identify this harder tone as the “correct” one, it also does not sound as good: harder, yes, but much breathier or airier as well.

Finally, the more focused/faster airstream occasionally produced a kind of stuttering note at the top of the second octave: the note actually goes on and off as I play. It’s like my lips are too dry or something.

Oh, and one more question: should my diaphram and even my throat feel tight as I play. I’m a lapsed trumpeter, so I know all about using the diaphram, but I’m used to balancing that against back-pressure in the mouthpiece. With the flute, I feel like maybe I’m conpensating for lack of back-pressure by tightening my diaphram too much.

So, I guess I’m interested in a little feedback from more experienced members as to whether I’m on the right track. I’m happy to give away the “nice” tone which I found quite easy to produce and replace it with a hard but crappy sound, as long as it gets less crappy over time.

With thanks,

Pete

2

Hey Pete,

What a great post. You’ve articulated some things that I’ve been thinking about as well. I’ll be very interested to learn what the more experienced folks here have to offer.

BTW, for those who don’t want to search for it, here’s the original thread:

The Dark Side, Luke …

Thanks for the post,

dow

edited to add link

3

Unless I’m playing completely wrong, the feeling of “back-pressure” should be created by your lips.

The causes I have experienced for missing low notes are:

  1. incompletely covering holes with fingers
  2. improper “jetstream” angle, solved by holding the flute as parallel to the lips as possible and centering the embouchure hole with my lips. Each individual may require adjustment.
  3. when transitioning from high to low notes, sometimes the low notes wouldn’t sound or would be in the wrong octave. Thanks to Catherine McEvoy, I open my throat/mouth as though singing a lower note when playing those, and now I rarely miss them. Some people talk about shaping your mouth to sing the pitch of each note you play on the flute… It’s probably pretty effective but probably not “trad” if you care about that :slight_smile:
  4. cracked flute
4

Back pressure is caused by your embouchure, but will never be anything like what it was with the trumpet, so you must be disciplined from the diaphragm too and reach some sort of equilibrium. The bottom three notes are the hardest to get strong, but they should come with time. It sounds to me though like you have jumped too far to the harsh side, too quickly. Try this as an exercise to speed things up lipwise while remaining in control: Start with your nice open tone on the fundamental D, and while playing a long tone, gradually tighten up your embouchure looking for that rougher, rawer, darker tone - take it as hard as you can get it until the note breaks. Then try it again, but this time avoid the note breaking and try and get back to the nice open tone. This will strengthen your lips quickly and teach you where all the different timbres are throughout your embouchure and give you the control to find them. Trick: try not to modulate your intonation as you do it. Do this on all your first octave notes. Not loads of fun, but if you want to speed things up it will help a lot.
Good luck.

5

Yes.

6

Hmm… mighty wordy of you, Cat.

Have you come down from the Augusta week yet?

7

Nope. :wink:

8

OK, seriously, the bruises from pinching myself are finally fading. :slight_smile: Wasn’t that the best week ever? And didn’t we have some fun!? … And is it possible to feel homesick for a place where you don’t live?

9

Yes, I get it everyday.

10

It takes maybe 9 months to get the embouchure, IMO,
and then it continues to improve.

So, patience…

If you are getting a reasonable and enjoyable airy tone,
it’s fine to use it. And, by all means, experiment
with a harder tone occasionally. But sweet and airy
is good too. Sooner or later your embouchure will
improve to the point where these issues work themselves
out.

Relaxed is good.

A good idea, IMO, is to play a higher pitched flute occasionally,
for instance a G flute (I have a rosewood sweetheart).
These are more demanding of your embouchure and
so they develop it. This speeds one’s progress in the
D flute, I’ve found.

The standard metaphor is the garden hose that shoots farther
if you close off part of the nozzle to make a faster stream.
That creates the back pressure. It also uses less air.
Ultimately flute takes no more air for me than does
a soprano whistle.

Jim (four years in)

11

Michael, would that be der Sweitz, Eire, or Jon’s shop?

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Amazing week. I completely understand about the homesick feeling. Returning to the working world was a serious bummer, dood. :smiley:

On the other hand, I can listen to my recordings of class with Mike, and it brings it all back to me. :slight_smile:

edited cuz i kant spel.

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Anywhere in the British Isles (especially Oxford)…although Jon’s shop is a close second.

14

Practice break!

Thanks for the replies so far. I’ve just made a discovery which seems to have helped a great deal: I haven’t been putting enough of my lower lip over the hole. Up to this point I’ve been putting the bottom edge of my lower lip just against the edge of the hole. For the last 1/2 hour I’ve tried placing the edge of the whole a couple of mm below the bottom edge of my lower lip, and flopping the whole lower lip over the hole, covering at least half of it. This has resulted in a much more satisfying “hard” sound that is mch more responsive to a faster and tighter airstream.

Just thought I’d share. Back to the practice room!

Pete

15

Surprising, how much lip it seems like you can “flop over” that thing, isn’t it? Never in all my Boehm years would I have believed it. :slight_smile: Just think of a slight “pout” with your lower lip out (just a bit, not puckered), and let the corners of your mouth press against each other in a sort-of frown feeling. Then aim your airstream down a bit for the low notes (you can roll in but watch your tuning), and more across or up for a sweeter tone in the middle and upper registers. If you’re doing it right you shouldn’t hear much “hiss”; you also shouldn’t need too much air. Then do that exercise bepoq suggested; it’s a good one.

And … congrats! You’re on your way! :party:

16

Thought I’d add a small suggestion that Desi Wilkinson gave me years ago. I was finally getting this really raw tone - like Conal O’Grada I imagined, but somewhere well on the diffuse and unpleasant side of him and with no control at all . Nice tone, he said (being kind), but try getting it using much less air.

It is not very practical I admit - more just something to always keep in mind and continually aim for - it took me a fair few months to begin getting it, but subsequently it has been a very useful maxim to keep in mind. You can almost always tighten things up a bit further and bring more control to the darkest and rawest sound.