I have been playing for three months on a practice set and felt pretty comfortable with the pressure. I just rec,d a halfset and without even clicking the drones Im flapping and when I click the drones on I just about fly away…bag and bellows are leak free. As the half set is new to me I just want to know if this sounds normal…I expected a change but was quite humbled when I could not play the tunes I already know without sounding like a complete beginner once again…
No it doesnt sound normal to me!What do you mean by “flapping and flying away”???As for pressure,with 3 drones on then there will of course be an increase in pressure but it will not be very much and after a while you won’t notice it.3 months isnt very long to be playing so be patient( to be playing tunes like an absolute beginner,after three months thatis what I would call NORMAL ! )
[ This Message was edited by: Uilliam on 2002-08-23 03:24 ]
Check around the bases of all reeds for leaks. Turn off the drones, cover all the holes on the chanter, put it against your knee/popping and fill the bag with air. See if there are any slow leaks that aren’t immediately noticable otherwise.
It sounds to me like you are having to pump too much. Even small leaks can cause this. If you’re using new bellows, you also might not be used to them. Make sure you’re drawing them open as much as possible.
If it’s a new chanter, with a new reed, the reed lips could be a little too open and letting too much air through, but that should also be pretty apparent. I’ve also known some synthetic or part synthetic drone reeds (brass tongue) to let more air through than regular reeds.
Let us know when you figure it out,
Dionys
If you’ve only been playing for three months, don’t even bother with the drones until you can play a number of tunes comfortably.
When I say flying… I am exaggerating to make a point. Please don’t take it literally or the Pipemakers might catch on…Pat has the best Idea… give up until I can handle a few tunes…but but I am playing tunes now.. just not to speed and not without flaw…I can’t find any leaks so I have a friend coming over on sunday who has a half set ..I’ll let him try it…i just feel it is not a normal struggle.. thanks to all ..Ill keep you posted. In the meantime Ill keep pumping away…its good excercise..
Stan,
This is the thread your looking for as I had the same problem. Don’t sweat it will come to you…I found that its best to start by shutting down the bass and baritone drone. Just get used to playing with the tenor. Also for practice on pressure…take the chanter off the bag and cover the hole with your finger…then just play the drones alone and try to relax and get an even tone without wavering. Good luck
At risk of putting myself in the line of fire…
You’ve done the leak test and you’ve adjusted the chanter to play with normal or light pressure and all is well…
You then click on ‘THREE MORE REEDS’ and find yourself working really hard keeping everything going. I think it’s normal to work up a sweat. Take some time getting used to it, mankind has always wanted to fly!!
I’m not trying to be sarcastic or harsh and it may be a bit of a struggle at first, but you’ll get it going. If you don’t, contact me and I’ll take that set off your hands 
Probably a leak. Try playing just the drones without the chanter. It should not be too much work as most beginners can manage a set of drones…its when trying to think of playing a chanter at the same as drones that a beginner gets behind on air supply. If you flap like a one-winged bird playing the drones only then you’ve got a leak. Could be a leak at the reed seat, a tuning slide, a crack in pipes, around the drone shutoff piston, etc.
Hi,
After playing for 2 years I received the drones for my practice set. I was really looking forward to them, but was gutted to find that they really affected the playing of the practice set - even when switched off - it seemed like I’d gone backwards.
My theory is that when you learn a tune, you ‘learn’ when to pump with it, a bit like when a whistler breathes, so you pump at the same point in the tune. When you use the drones the air rate is higher and you have to pump more, and at different points; this completely buggers up your whole coordination and tunes you could play before suddenly become more difficult.
That was nearly a year ago: after a couple of months I was back to playing tunes as normal (without the drones, had got used to the weight), but I still struggle playing with them on, though I’m gradually getting a little better. I have to be very comfortable with a tune on the chanter before I try it with the drones.
Should it be this difficult? Main problems I have are
- tuning the bloody things
- pitch varies with pressure, whilst playing
- drone reeds cut out on the high octave
- baritone drone has two different pitches, it skips between them at random
- volume of air it takes to drive them.
I’ve read all the stuff about playing with the reeds (moving the choke band, rubbing them between your hands, inserting hairs etc.), and how to tune them, but I find it very frustrating, and mostly stick with the chanter.
Cheers, Keith
Keith, you could try plugging whichever two take the most air with bits of cork and get used to playing with just one drone first, then add the others progressively.
Keith, sit down with an expert and let them have a look at your posture, use of bag, bellows, etc. I was able to get a one-on-one lesson from a master, the honorable Benedict Koehler, after two years of playing and you would not believe the benefit of his observations and instruction regarding my technique of moving and manipulating air. I’d say that most of us misuse the bellows and do not use the bag appropriately either and a check-up lesson would do everyone some good. with that said, I think you have a leak around or in the reeds and surely this is the likely cause of the variations with pressure.
I agree with Glands. Getting a check-up is vital. Adjusting drone reeds is an art not learned from books. Fine-tuning them for pressure and adjustments need to be learned from experienced players. Though we will have reed-making classes at the S.F. tionol in Feb., our main focus will be on reed maintenance and adjustment, followed by pipes maintenance, including leak testing, joint wrapping, piper posture etc. Ted
On 2003-01-23 12:43, Keith wrote:
Hi,My theory is that when you learn a tune, you ‘learn’ when to pump with it, a bit like when a whistler breathes, so you pump at the same point in the tune.
This is indeed a natural tendency, but definitely something to avoid. Your pumping should have absolutely no relation to the timing of the tune; it should be tied only to your need for air in the bag. You have to train your brain to separate the process of playing the tune from the process of supplying air. It’s a difficult but essential skill to acquire. Watch any good piper and you’ll see that his or her bellows action has no relation at all to the tune being played.
I struggled with this a lot myself. It’s hard to keep those processes separate…almost as hard as learning how to relax your hands on the chanter despite all the pressure you’re using on the bag, which tends naturally to lead to a death-grip on the chanter. The discipline of learning how to keep these processes separate probably helps later in using the regulators.
An easy way to think of when you need to pump your bellows is to make it simply dependant upon when your bag reaches a certain level of deflatedness (yeah. I’m sure it’s not a word). It’s key to avoid it comming on tempo/on beat.
Dionys
This MacHarg bag I’m using has been with the set since the early 80’s. It’s still in great shape, and the bellows are very old and not prfectly tight.
Specifically…
1)The bellows deflate by themselves once every 35 seconds (plugging the hole with finger, and that’s far from airtight.
2)playing the chanter alone, I use 6 bellows strokes in 30 seconds.
3)playing the chanter and drones alone, I use 11 bellow strokes in 30 seconds.
4)w/all 7 reeds going…holding three regulator keys down, and playing the chanter with left hand only, and running all three drones, I use 13 bellow strokes in 30 seconds. (regular 2/3 strokes, not full complete strokes)
I know many pipers have a much greater capacity, and their bellows and bag are far more tight. But, I hope this gives you an idea what some us are doing.
Dear Piper
Any one of your drone reeds on its own should use no more pressure than the chanter reed itself, if so this could be down to the petal or tongue/s being set too wide open or too stiff to vibrate properly on any or all the reeds.
When you turn on your drones they should start to sound in and around the same time as the chanter does and not too much more afterwards, you should also be able to hit any single second octave note without much pressure or you will soon have that SWEAT ON as described earlier.
If you bought the drones second hand as seen then its not unusual for first time drone players/beginners to witness this scenario and be put off a bit.
If the set is fully air tight, then you would be best trying to find the culprit which might be sapping all your air, block off all but one drone and try it to see just how much air is being used, until you find a difference in air consumption, there is a small difference/increase in the total consumption between the tenor and bass, but not a lot.
Once you have all the drone reeds working under optimum pressure IE the same as the chanter reed, try playing one drone at a time until you are used to the extra air consuption and add another and so on.
What kind of reeds are fitted to the drones, cane, elder, composite or other, if cane are fitted then you might have more to learn in keeping them going smoothly.
Davy.
Good to have have you back Davy!!
Good on ya davie !!
.
[ This Message was edited by: tok on 2003-01-26 23:23 ]
Many thanks everyone, for some good practicle suggestions.
Think I’m keeping the volume of air in the bag more or less constant, using the bellows a little at a time to keep the volume/pressure constant. This is fine (for me) whilst using the chanter alone, but starts to upset things when the drone pull out more air.
I’m trying to let the bag deflate fairly fully, before reinflating it, in line with the advice above, but I think this will take a few weeks to remodel! Let’s hope it’s one step backwards for two forward!
Cheers, Keith
Keith,
Your more on track with the topping up rather than too much deflating, you just have to do it more often
All the best
Alan