Got a new Susato today

Whistle
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Since I’ve been using my Susato Dublin for Morris, I thought I’d go ahead and get a Kildare, as it will be nice to have a tuneable if we ever manage to attract more musicians (or if I get another chance to play with Seabright, which seems more likely). I knew there was a store here that sells them, so I dropped by today and picked one up. Nice whistle! The more I play Susatos, the more they grow on me (particularly now that I’ve figured out how to manage the second octave). I am surprised, however, that it seems a little quieter than my Dublin…still louder than my Dixon, and definitely loud enough for my purposes, but I hadn’t expected much of a difference at all. I wonder if it’s a small bore rather than a standard bore (and how would I tell?). I was also surprised that it’s brown, as I thought the Susatos only came in black and ivory. Anyway, it’s really quite a nice little instrument, and I liked that they now come with a case and a tube of cork grease (I never seem to have the latter around when I need it).

Redwolf

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Hi Red,

hold your Kildare up against your Dublin - is the internal bore the same? If so, it’s a normal bore. I assume you mean very small bore by small bore. The VSB is meant to be quieter than the regular.

There’s probably a bit of variation even between two seemingly identical whistles, even though they are moulded.

I’ve seen Brown Susatos before, in the Kildare model.

Like you, Susato whistles have grown on me after a year and a half of playing. I’m also dipping my toes into another make that I used to dislike, but more on that when I’ve had a week or two of playing to assess them properly.

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I also have a brown Susato D that I like very much. It takes a liitle while to learn to play in the 2nd octave. It is one of my most played whistles next to my Feadan and Sweetone. What I don’t understand is the number of people who bad mouth the Susato but it has the top satisfaction scores in the whistle poll. However, I have never met a whistle I didn’t like.
Ron

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I’m still becoming aquainted with my Susato D. Once I master 2nd octave I’m sure it will be played more. I play the Bb frequently.
My TW is nearly as loud as the Susato but easier to get octave 2.

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It’s hard to tell, just by eyeballing them, as the Kildare has a little molded finial around the base, which distorts my perception somewhat. Would it be a significant and obvious difference? I guess the only thing to do is dig my daughter’s ruler out of her backpack and actually measure them. Not that it matters much, since I like the whistle…just idle curiousity on my part.

Redwolf

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Yes. The VSB is significantly and obviously thinner than the SB.

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This is definitely a standard bore, then. If there’s a difference at all between them, it’s negligable.

Because I was feeling a bit flush yesterday, I also treated myself to a copy of L.E. McCullough’s “Complete Tin Whistle Tunes” (with the 4-CD set). What a great book! The CDs really make it…what fun to be able to play along, first at a “learning” speed to get the tune, and then at tempo (and trying to either imitate or coordinate with the full-speed ornamentation).

I also noticed a poster advertising an “introduction to playing in session” workshop that I really wish I could attend (only $10!). It’s aimed at “beginning, intermediate and just plain shy” Irish musicians (the last two of which describe me pretty well), sponsored by the local chapter of CCE…which I didn’t even know we had here! Unfortunately, it’s this Saturday, and I just can’t go.
:cry: I hope they plan to hold another one soon.

The really funny thing is, the music store where all this happened specializes in band instruments (I discovered they had Susatos when we rented my daughter’s sax). The music store I usually patronize, which specializes in acoustic/folk instruments, doesn’t have nearly as much whistle-related stuff (though the owner says he’s planning on stocking a lot more, as he’s been getting requests for more whistle music and a larger whistle selection).

Redwolf

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Interesting things whistles for sorting out prejudices, or otherwise. I carve wood and love wood, but as yet, have only one wooden whistle (ancient).
Reason - maintenance largely.

I loathe metal, hated metal sculpture work…but have a Shaw A and a Clarke D which I like, and a Chieftain D which I’m getting used to…although I find the thought of Sindts/Burkes with some plastic preferable.

But…all plastic - can’t do it. How ever well priced the Dixon or however people go on about Susato (dreadful name), all I can hear is a cacophony of school recorders screeching in my ear over rather more than one decade..or three..or..especially when I read of second octave problems.

Prejudiced? Nope - peeplj look out…I just ordered an M&E… :smiley:

Trisha

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Dublin is definitely a narrow-ER bore, and the diameter has also varied over the years of production, as they tried to perfect the line. My tunable has a pretty fat barrel, which sometimes makes it hard to hang onto, and pitch is slightly different than a Dublin. Bright and loud.
This was the “wide bore” model before it was called the “Kildare.”

If you ever get the chance, I recommend that you deal with George or Michael Kelischek directly. They are wonderful folks who care about what they make. For the novice, though, www.susato.com shows a bewildering variety of choices. Call or email them-they can help you decide.

Slightly OT, but does anyone else have one of their short run of whistles with the wooden fipple plugs? I have a C, in Brown, with cedar plug. Love the tone that little bit of wood imparts, and wonder why they stopped making them.

Olehan

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Now, that sounds interesting…

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"Prejudiced? Nope - peeplj look out…I just ordered an M&E… "

Let us know what you think when you get it Trisha! I’ve been thinking about ordering one but was hoping for at least one more review first…

The wooden fippled Susatos sound good! A bit of wood is just what they need to calm down that 2nd octave.

:party:

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The second octave really isn’t at all problematic, once you’ve played it for a while. I finally figured out my problem with it was that I was a bit shy of the volume (I usually practice indoors, with people around). FWIW, I was “upper octave shy” for quite some time, until playing higher tunes on my “easier” whistles gave me some confidence that I could play up there without sounding screechy. What finally solved my problem with my Dublin was really NEEDING a loud whistle for Morris. I’d been alternating between my Dixon and my Elfsong for the class, when we suddenly got kicked out of our indoor practice space. Our first outdoor practice was really cold and windy, and I couldn’t get a solid bell note out of either of them in that gale (plus, some of the kids had just gotten their bells), so I reached for the loudest whistle in my gig bag kind of in desperation. I found that, so long as I played confidently and thought of the volume as an asset, I had no problems whatsoever. It’s just a matter of leaning into it and letting it rip. I even play it inside sometimes now. :smiley:

And I must say this…having played both, I seriously DO NOT think the Susatos sound at all like recorders. Even my daughter can tell the difference between my Dublin and my plastic Yamaha recorder without seeing which I’m playing.

First time I saw a plastic whistle, I kind of went “eeew!” too, but I have four now, and I really like them all. The really funny thing is, most people who see me playing my Dixon just assume it’s made of wood…I guess because it’s black and has bits of brass on it (it’s the one with the brass tuning slide).

Redwolf

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I guess plastic whistles are always going to suffer from the plastic recorder association, but if you hear them played, there’s absolutely no comparison.

Dixons sound as much like a wood whistle as I could ask for, without the maintainance problems associated with wood. I just invesred in Dixons in C, Bb and low G, to add to my D, A and low D. I love them all, the sound is haunting and I’ll probably get more Dixons eventually.

Susatos have the loudness required to cut it in a loud session, and when one day in about 15 years I have the balls to try to play in one, I’ll be playing a Susato for sure.

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The irony is, as I’ve pointed out before, Dixon whistles actually do sound quite a bit like a good wooden recorder, where to my ears no Susato (or Sweet, for that matter) sounds anything like a recorder at all.

The Dixon doesn’t quite have the cutting power that a recorder does, though…a good recorder has a very focused tone with almost a cutting edge to the sound.

–James

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[quote=“Martin Milner”][
I guess plastic whistles are always going to suffer from the plastic recorder association, but if you hear them played, there’s absolutely no comparison.

Actually, the Yamaha and Zenon woodgrain plastic recorders have a really decent sound. The yamaha tenor and kick bass (I have both) can’t be beat given the price. And talk about being inconsistent, I have just gotten into whistling in January (I have been working from the L.E. McCullough’s book and CD’s as well and agree it is great) and have a Clare and a Burke both d’s in brass and find the thought of a plastic whistle mildly unappealling. However, as I’m planning to get some low whistles (g,d maybe) I may have to revisit this equation.

John.

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I was really thinking of the really cheap things that get handed out to 5-8 year olds dor their first musical tootings.

I remember recorder groups at the time I was playing violin in a youth orchestra, and though the sounds I made were no pleasure except to my adoring parents, well, you could see their parents were genuinely embarrassed at their prodigy’s efforts. Painful all round.

No fault of the kids, really, they were handicapped by playing nasty cheap recorders.

I don’t think you’d be disappointed at the sound of a Dixon low G or D, plastic or not.

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I think the teaching at the elementary school level is also often not of the best…not because the teachers aren’t good music teachers, but because they tend to think of the recorder only as a medium for introducing kids to basic music reading (and often only play on a basic level themselves), rather than as an instrument in its own right. I get very frustrated listening to the kids play at my daughter’s school, partially because, even after three or four years on the recorder, they’re still huffing out each individual note with no notion of proper breathing, tonguing or phrasing, and none of them have gotten into the second octave, or done more than touch on notes lower than G (in fact, my daughter’s in fourth grade, and has only this year been taught fingering for anything other than BAG).

The teacher is actually a very good musician, and has a way with kids, but he’s not a recordist, he’s a band musician and conductor. He plays several instruments well (his specialty is the trumpet), but I think he sees the recorder more as a way to prepare kids for playing a “real” instrument rather than as an instrument in its own right.

Last year, instead of our regular spring carnival, the school had a Rennaissance Fair. Thinking that some of the older kids might enjoy playing the role of wandering minstrel, I brought in some very simple Rennaissance-era recorder music (geared toward beginners) and was surprised to learn that NONE of the kids knew enough notes on the recorder to play any of it, even though they start weekly recorder lessons in first grade.

I don’t know if this is the case in other elementary schools (this is the only school I’ve been affiliated with that offered recorder), but I’ve heard enough elementary school recorder horror stories to wonder if this attitude isn’t fairly wide-spread.

Redwolf

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There is no stigma to plastic, it’s only in our prejudices.
It’s all about the sound and how you manipulate that tube with holes.

Redwolf said
I think the teaching at the elementary school level is also often not of the best…not because the teachers aren’t good music teachers, but because they tend to think of the recorder only as a medium for introducing kids to basic music reading (and often only play on a basic level themselves), rather than as an instrument in its own right. I get very frustrated listening to the kids play at my daughter’s school, partially because, even after three or four years on the recorder, they’re still huffing out each individual note with no notion of proper breathing, tonguing or phrasing, and none of them have gotten into the second octave, or done more than touch on notes lower than G (in fact, my daughter’s in fourth grade, and has only this year been taught fingering for anything other than BAG).

This is to true, but in the south a lot of public school music programs have been cut out. Completely.

I was subjected to “flutophones” in 4-5th grades, and the other kids with me that were really interested in music went on from there. (flutophone: a plastic recorder substitute, and was our public school system’s version of device for recorder group-torture. Maybe cheaper than a recorder, but why not use a real instrument?) Love for music can also be nurtured at home-perhaps the best place to pass on traditions.

I serve on a parochial school board and have helkped insure that recorders be used for music intro classes, before students go on to choose a “band” instrument. Some stay with recorders, bless them. The music teachers are recorder players (and organ, and trombone) and we’re lucky to have people that see it as a real instrument. Must be the German (Lutheran) heritage.

Regarding plastic vs wood:
I have wood tenor (keyless) and a plastic Aulos tenor recorder (with key), and while the maple one may be a better instrument, the lack of a key makes playing certain notes impossible for me. You use what works for you.

So regarding Low key Susatos: the holes are huge and for me (small hands), good closure can be a problem. Small-hand-friendly versions of low whistles are available, if that’s what you think you’ll need.

G is a good place to start.

Dixson vs Susato:
Darn it, I guess I’ll have to get a Dixon with all its gleaming brass and compare tone and volume for myself. Unless someone would loan me one?


olehan[/i][/u]

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If you don’t want all the brass, a tuneable Dixon without the brass tuning slide is available for $24 from The Whistle Shop. Tuning slide is similar to the Susato Kildare’s I believe

http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalog/whistles/inexpensive/dixon/sop.html

I like my Dixon…it’s not as loud as the Susatos, but it has a very nice tone and it projects pretty well. It’s in playing for the Morris Dancers where the Susato really shines…it’s hard to find a whistle that can be heard outdoors over sticks, bells, and whatever ambient noise happens to be around, but the Susato definitely gets the job done!

Your background sounds a bit like mine…I too discovered my first Generations about 25 years ago, and have an older Feadog (from around 1995 or so, if I remember correctly) that plays very nicely and in tune.

Redwolf

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Oh, I want the Dixon with Brass trimmings, tuning slide and all! :slight_smile: WhOA rears its ugly head.

I have learned, though, that too many whistles aquired in too short a time arouses suspicion and envy among one’s spouse and peers. I’ll have to restain myself but WILL accept a Dixon offered in sympathy. Mailing address available under personal info. May even consider a cultural exchange program, say, like an exchange student swap!

As for its ungainly name, the Susato is named after a composer (renaissance?), I believe. But you would be hard-presses to beat it’s volume, unamplified.

As I often have to play in un-amplified situations, too: re-enactments, school demos, or small halls, I agree, this is where Susato excels.

To paraphrase another C&F’er

Play it loud & play it proud!

Olehan