Listen, I’ve been whistling for a couple of years now, and I’ve started to notice something not quite right. I find that when I’m playing in the upper octave (doesn’t seem to matter which whistle) I get a rather shrill tone. The note is correct, but it seems too…well, too loud, I guess.
Other whistlers seem able to play high notes without upping the volume, but the only way I’ve ever gotten into the upper register (particularly the highest high notes) is by tightening my embrochure and blowing harder. What am I missing?
Possibly the only thing that’s wrong with your embouchure (“bouche” means mouth) is the spelling. “Embrochure”, if it meant anything, would refer to the way you had been put on a spit, or possibly run through with a sword (“embrocher”, to put on a spit, run through).
Seriously, though, I don’t know of any way of getting the upper octave without blowing harder, and I think tightening the lips and cheek muscles is optional. If anyone knows of another way I’d be intrigued.
I agree with Steve that more air is required to pop the first scale up to the second, and there’s no way around it, but it’s okay to leave your embouchure relaxed. Shrill sounds tend to result from A) blowing harder than necessary or B) whistle design-- some are harsher than others. My Clark and Sweetone are great in 2nd octave, my Susato is more shrill, especially when I’m blowing it up to pitch. So I guess the things to experiment with are trying to discover the least amount of air pressure to play in the 2nd octave as well as trying different whistles.
Possibly the only thing that’s wrong with your embouchure (“bouche” means mouth) is the spelling.
Oops. Color me red! I’ve been out of “whistle-talk” for awhile now, and I hadn’t thought of the obvious French derivation.
That’s an unusual spelling of Tannenbaum, too.
OK, well that’s not a typo. “tanenbaumm” comes from a login I used to have at an old company. “Tanenbaum” is the proper spelling of my surname (it’s from the Ukraine, as opposed to the German double-n version). The login was always lastname-plus-firstinitial, thus “tanenbaumm”. It’s a login I use at lots and lots of boards…keeps me from having to remember this login at one board, that login at another.
But misspellings aside, I’m still trying to figure out my embouchure. Any thoughts lads, lassies, lord or ladies?
On some whistles, you just have to tighten your lips to play higher notes.Those are whistles I return or don’t use. My Maple Sweet requires it from high g up.
You DO NOT have to with Burkes, at least the four I own.
I hate extra changes just to pass a point in a scale. Aggravation I don’t need.
I think the problem is probably breathing. I remember that at some stage in my whistling, I developed a fear of high notes, or kacophoniaphobia. Might have been similar to the way you are worried about sounding “shrill”. Take the whistle you like best, send of wife & kiddies to the mall, bribe the neighbors, and then let rip. Play the second octave as loud and as high as you can. Play entire tunes in the second octave. If you do that for an hour or two, I think the problem will be gone. As for the wife and kiddies when they come back from the mall, there’s always personal bankruptcy, you know.
Embouchure Fruit Salad
2 large navel/Valencia oranges
orange juice
3 bananas
mint, crushed
1/4 cup confectioners’ sugar
1 1/2 cups shredded coconut
Peel the oranges carefully, removing ALL membranes. Peel and cut the banana into slices. (You may add pineapple, grapes, apples slices, etc.) Alternate layers of oranges and bananas in individual serving dishes. Sprinkle each layer with coconut. Pour a little orange juice over the fruit. Sprinkle coconut over the top of the dish and chill well.
Serve with a garnish of crushed mint, a cherry, etc. 4 servings.
Sheesh, peeling orange membranes. Reminds me of another thread about an oddly shaped…
Yes, its true, I “work” and I even have a “boss”
After I buy the month’s whistles, I even get “food” for my “children.” Yes, I am sick and its… its… IT"S SICKENING!
This brings to mind a question I’ve had for a while.
It seems to me that starting a note in the second octave on the whistle requires a certain amount of air pressure, but that once the note is started, one can drop back the air pressure by some amount – to the point where you would be playing in the lower octave if you started at that amount of pressure. It seems I do this almost unconsciously at this point, but perhaps I’m just imagining the effect.
I think you’re right Scott. What I value in a whistle is the least amount of that difference but I think it intrudes into the volume dimension of various makes. I have felt that Susatos require that blast too. You can live with it as long as the ensuing note is reliable, which it is not on the Sweet for me without noted lip-tightening.
I have a Chieftains that requires so much onset air that I have a real hard time thinking about the music or perhaps, have to shape the music to fit that dynamic.
Hate to be the broken record but the Burkes afford me the least amount of distraction yet the high B on the AlPro sometimes just fails by sounding out of tune or squawky.
Maybe it’s like friction. (picture a physics class and the ubiquitous block-on-a-surface diagram) You need more force to break the static friction and start the block moving than you do to keep it moving once it’s begun…
I have had the same problem with squeaking in the upper octaves. As a sometime clarinet player, I figured the squeaking was due to an embouchure problem. I’ve found 3 things that help: 1- Changing to a different brand of whistle (in my case, to an Oak from some cheap thing I bought from the Signals catalog); 2 - experience. I’ve been playing for 5 or 6 years now, and the it has gotten better with practice. 3- I have to focus, concentrate on the note without tensing up. Ususally, I do have to play them louder, but recently I’ve found that I can blow a fast air stream without blowing louder.
Thanks for all the feedback (esp. the embouchure salad…glad it wasn’t an embrochure salad…that’d be slimy).
It isn’t really squeaking I’m talking about. I can play the high notes just fine. They’re clear and all that. I guess I’d just like to be able to hit those notes and simultaneously moderate the volume down towards something that won’t drive the cat insane.
Dunno, maybe I just got a bunch of really loud whistles.
Most of my whistles are in D (I haven’t been able to get my fingers to behave in other keys): Feadog, Clarke, a PVC Thin Weasel (I guess that’s a Water Weasel), and a low D Chieftain (aluminum).
On 2002-07-15 21:28, tanenbaumm wrote:
I can play the high notes just fine. They’re clear and all that. I guess I’d just like to be able to hit those notes and simultaneously moderate the volume down towards something that won’t drive the cat insane.
It’s in the nature of the whistle - the second octave is way louder, always has been, always will be. Simultaneously and advantage and a disadvantage (a feature and an issue, in Windows-speak).
Attempts to address this problem and other perceived defects of the whistle led to the development of the recorder. A case of the cure being worse than the disease, in most of our views.
Assuming you don’t want to move to recorder and forgo our collective friendship, you can modify your Generation-style whistle. I like a sweet top end myself and find I can usually easily obtain one with a variety of approaches.
The Sindt whistle has a fairly tame top end. It’s fairly tame altogether in fact.
The Burke wide-bore brass whistle also has a surprisingly unpiercing top end. Something to do with its perturbed bore, possibly.
But try tweaking your cheapies first.
Edited to fix typo and add this PS:
PS Bloomfield’s suggestion to take the bull by the horns and get used to making all that noise is very good advice. With students I usually introduce a particular tune early on that forces them to play sustained high Bs and As - most are loath to do so, even on relatively quiet whistles like Feadogs and Sweetones. So perhaps you too just have to get over your timidity with these notes…
[ This Message was edited by: StevieJ on 2002-07-16 19:42 ]