Generation Revelation.

Whistle
1

Shock Horror!
Out and about yesterday I was in Newport Pagnell. Knowing there used to be a Hobgoblin there I dropped by. It’s no longer Hobgoblin but the music shop is still there and is called Newport Music. Being a bit of a whistle maker myself my original intent was to see what other makers had on offer, however the shop had changed and there was not a whistle to be had bar a couple of lonely Generations a D and a Bb. I bought the Bb handing over the princely sum of £6.
Playing it in the shop it was unimpressive but to be fair the shop acoustics was rather dead. I bought it with the intention of experimenting with it having read “How to Tweak Plastic Mouthpiece/Cylindrical Shaft Tinwhistles” by Dale Wisely
Arriving home I brewed up the obligatory mug of coffee and had another go on it in the much more whistle friendly acoustics of the kitchen. Hmmmm, not to bad but still not that good. So, lets have a closer look and do some tweaking.
First using an eye loupe (a magnifying glass that fits in your eye, like jeweller use, cheap and widely available from Maplins) I saw the wind way was clear of debris but at the blade end there was a couple of tiny flashes of plastic left from the moulding process. I carefully removed these with a scalpel.
Playing the whistle again this improved things it was I suppose smoother to play (if that makes sense)
Next with the eye loupe I noticed the blade had some tiny plastic hairs on it and it was a dead sharp edge. So I used a tool I made up (see tool below) to just clean up the hairs and make the edge not quite so sharp but do not go mad ad rub loads off at once. A few light strokes at a time then try the whistle. If you take to much off you could ruin it. Slow and carefully does it.
Much better, now I love it, can’t put it down, driving the wife nuts. It has a nice mellow tone the top end doesn’t scream and its over all a nice whistle. Love it.

Special tool. A lolly stick cut with a sharp stanely knife and sanded to fit nicely in the fipple window, to the stick cut and glue a piece of 1000 grit wet or dry paper so you have something like a nail file but with much finer grit than an actual nail file.
Lolly sticks from any good hobby shop
Wet and dry paper from places like Halfords.

Give it a try. For the price of a couple of pints and an hours fiddling you could end up with a very nice little instrument.

2

Exactly one pint in London. :frowning:

3

I find the Generation Bb whistles to be quite good right off the shelf - no jeweler’s loupe, no lolly sticks. And being a whistlemaker myself I have the magnifiers and micromesh abrasives and such at hand. Still Bb Gens usually don’t need any messing with in my experience. And you get to invest the cost of the pints into, what else, more pints.

We have to get the word out somehow that tweaking isn’t where the whistle world begins and ends. Most whistles are pretty well playable as they stand.

Feadoggie

4

I’d go further - plenty of cheap whistles are fine just as they are and seem to be worse when tweaked. Best not, in my opinion.

5

While I agree in principle with Feadoggie and Ben, in the OP’s defense I’d also say that very carefully removing any extra plastic flashing, and very gently smoothing a blade or other edge that’s overly sharp from the molding process barely qualifies as tweaking. It’s more just remedying a few minor manufacturing flaws, and applies not only to Generations. In this case, since the OP is also a whistle maker, he presumably knows to exercise caution. But the windway sanding is probably unnecessary unless there’s an obvious obstruction.

6

Actually, I agree with all of that. I don’t count the removal of extraneous plastic as tweaking at all. But, other than cleaning the thing up, I always tend to leave it alone.

7

Yes, I’m not actually commenting on the actions taken but more on the premise, which I quoted.

Buying Gens with the intention of tweaking is what I was commenting on.

Norm, I am glad you got a good whistle out of your efforts. :thumbsup: Enjoy it! I mean no offense to you.

I have been known to replace Gen heads with those of my own making - in the interest of science and technology of course. Of the many, many Gens I have purchased over the years the majority have been fine. And I like to play those just as they are. I have had a couple stinkers. Those met with the executioner’s axe. Off with their heads. That can work out well. It is not exactly a tweak.

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I just happen to think most whistles do not need to be purchased with the intention of tweaking or the need to be tweaked. And, as I have commented recently, I fear that we give the impression that all Gen type whistles need to be tweaked.

Feadoggie

8

Yes, what is it with this forum and ‘tweaking’?

9

The word “tweaking” is being used here as if all tweaking is the same. These are musical instruments, and small variations make huge differences. Over ten years, I’ve tweaked twenty thousand or so whistles. The tweaking schemes I use reflect all I’ve learned in that time, and they vary considerably depending on type of whistle.

Occasionally, I encounter whistles I did years ago. I’m always a little worried they won’t be as good as I would like, but I’m usually pleased with what I find. However, I do find I can improve some of them by bringing the tweaking scheme up to date. Please bear in mind, even those whistles I did long ago, some of which I can improve today, themselves reflected the experience of several thousand whistles before.

What I do is “tweaking,” but it isn’t the same as what someone else might be doing, which can also be called “tweaking.” For reference, here’s what I do:

  1. I remove the whistlehead, which is glued out of tune at the factory, to make the whistle tuneable.

  2. I press a brass ring onto the socket part of the whistlehead so it’s not so vulnerable to cracking (the Achilles heel of these instruments and the reason the classic ones have all but disappeared); then I mount the whistlehead on a lathe and machine the ring to a bright finish,

  3. If necessary, I remove some material from the bottom or top end of the tonebody to make it play properly in tune. For some keys this is necessary, for some it is not.

  4. For some models, I make the tonebody completely from scratch (D Mellow Dog, alto A tweaked Generation and tenor G tweaked Generation. The alto A and tenor G are keys Generation doesn’t make. I also make tweaked Bnat and Enat Generations by modifying the existing Bb and Eb tonebodies.

  5. For the keys above Bb, I fill the cavity under the windway, with either with an epoxy resin or with putty. That cavity is there, not because it serves an acoustical purpose, but because the molded part would distort on cooling and be ruined if that area were a solid mass of plastic. (For the higher keys, I find filling under the windway makes the notes cleaner and better balanced one to another; the lower keys, I like better without the filling. Before about two years ago, when I made another refinement to the tweaking scheme, those lower keys needed filling; now they don’t.)

  6. I work a radius onto the square edge of the windway floor where it adjoins the voicing chamber. The geometry is incorrect in the original molded part because the correct geometry will be an undercut that would be impossible to remove from the mold. The ideal radius is different for different whistles, btw. (You wouldn’t want to do this without properly adjusting the “step.” There’s a balance in the relationship between the soundblade position and the windway floor exit geometry that changes when one or the other is adjusted.)

  7. I laminate a layer of material underneath the soundblade to adjust the “step” (the position of the soundblade bottom relative to the windway floor) and to adjust the voicing to the desired brightness or warmth.

  8. I carve the soundblade to the proper edge.

  9. I test the whistle and make any needed adjustments to the soundblade position and windway floor exit radius.

  10. I put on a “Jerry Freeman tweaked” sticker (they sound noticeably better with the sticker on).

With variations to the tweaking scheme described above, in the key of D, I am able to offer four voicings:

Blackbirds (the most pure/sweet),

Bluebirds (pure/sweet voicing, but a little warmer and with the traditional “Generation” personality

Tweaked Generations (a little warmer still, but sweeter than currently manufactured Generations; I’ve matched this voicing as closely as possible to the vintage, pre-1980s Generations.

Mellow Dogs (sweet voiced, with a wide bore tonebody for a bigger sound).

It bears mention, the University of Connecticut Digital Musicology Group has made precision CT scans of my whistlehead designs to facilitate eventually bringing them into mass production. To give some context, they have received international media attention for doing a similar process with original saxophone mouthpieces made by Adolphe Sax, who invented the instrument (there are only a few of the original mouthpieces in existence): http://bigstory.ap.org/article/uconn-makes-3-d-copies-antique-instrument-parts

I apologize if this all seems self-promotional. My concern is, there is so much talk here about tweaking. Much of that discussion seems to treat tweaking as if it is one thing, and you either tweak a whistle or you don’t, either a whistle “needs tweaking” or it doesn’t. It’s not quite that simple.

Best wishes,
Jerry

10

Still my favourite all-time whistle is my c1980 Generation C.

The only thing I did to it was pack the cavity which brought up the pitch of the 2nd octave and made the whole thing play a bit sweeter. I used wax which could easily be removed in the future if anybody wanted to un-tweak it. The body is a different story, the note emitting from Hole 4 being sharper than all the rest. I played it with tape on that hole for years, then I finally bit the bullet and chopped the end and carved out most of the other holes to get a perfect scale with no tape.

No other whistle at any price (including tweaked Generations) has matched (or come close to) the combination of incredibly easy sweet pure clean high notes and full round low notes.

I’ve tried wonderful Generation Bb’s but these have been in the possession of good players. I’ve never come across a Generation Bb in a shop that’s been very good (I’ve tried hundreds of the things over the years) and I use one of Jerry’s for that key. I’ve had a couple nice Generation D’s over the years but I’ve given them away, preferring my c1980 Feadog. (Sort of wish I’d kept one.)

I think modern whistle makers are capable of making whistles as good as those fine old Generations, it’s just that they don’t seem to want to. That is, they’re going for something different that what my personal preference is. So many makers want the bell note as strong as they can get it and willingly sacrifice the sweetness of the high notes to get it. My “classic” old whistles aren’t like that, but in my opinion balance the needs of the lowest notes and the needs of the highest notes just right.

For the key of A I’m currently using one of Jerry’s Bb Generation heads on a body I made myself, a larger diameter tubing soldered onto a short bit of Generation Bb tubing so as to fit into the head. It has great intonation and very sweet high notes. I have Freeman Generations in mezzo G and A on order. I’ve always been a “Generation guy”.

My Generation lineup, my homemade A on the left, with my semi-crude (but good-playing) modified Generations in B natural and C sharp to complete the range. (This is before I got a nice-playing Freeman Generation Bb.)

11

I think modern whistle makers are capable of making whistles as good as those fine old Generations, it’s just that they don’t seem to want to.

Most makers do not have a strong background in the aesthetics of traditional music, neither as listeners nor as players. The ones that do (Killarney, John Sindt, Cillian O Briain, Lon Dubh for example) tend to make whistles closer to a sound and playability/responsiveness that traditional players are looking for than those who don’t.

12

To Pancelticpiper’s and Mr. G’s comments …

I chose tweaking instead of making whistles from scratch because it was clear the tradition is based on the voicings and playing characteristics of the mass produced whistles.

The long range goal of this work has always been, to eventually mass produce affordable whistles that continue the tradition of those classic Generations. (I too have found that many of the vintage C Generations are especially good, btw.) Anyone should be able to go into a music store or log onto a website and buy a whistle they can afford to try out, that’s reliably excellent every time and sounds and plays the way Irish traditional players want them to.

Ultimately, all the whistles I’ve tweaked over the years have been prototypes, and all the business I’ve done has been a massive field test to discover exactly what people want and to learn everything I can about how these whistles work.

During the next year or two, with the help of the UConn Digital Musicology Group’s precision CT scanning capability, I’ll be working with the designs in the form of 3D modeling computer files. That will allow me to further refine them and work toward the final versions for mass production. I’ll 3D print prototypes of various configurations that I’ll circulate for people to try and give feedback until I’m satisfied each design is exactly what it should be.

And then we’re off and running. Instead of batches or twenty five or so at a time, I’ll be able to produce twenty five hundred or twenty five thousand at a time, and I’ll be able to price them for conventional distribution markups. That will facilitate worldwide distribution of the whistles into all the venues people normally look for musical instruments. That should draw more people to the whistle and help them stay with the music because they’ll have a more satisfying experience to get started.

13

Such a pity this wasn’t posted four days earlier - so pleased with my Freeman Bb and Mellow Dog C/D combo that I’d have placed an immediate bulk order for the stickers (will now have to wait, as 01 April comes but once a year).
:smiling_imp:

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Hmmmmmm…….. What?

15

Hmmmmmm…….. What?

All that, and world peace thrown in for good measure..

16

Why not? Gotta do SOMETHING with one’s time in this life.

17

I’d be OK with all that plus nickel beer and a police force that gives inebriated whistle players a free ride home.

18

Requests noted. I’ll put my best people on it right away.

19

Now that this thread has brought together precision modeled plastic whistles and the maker Lon Dubh, I wanted to ask: did the injection molded Lon Dubh project ever came through with an affordable whistle? I’ve occasionally checked Whistle and Drum, as well as Big Whistle Music, but never caught sight of one out in the wild (of online retail).

20

Forgive me replying to myself, I wanted affirm what PCP said:

This is why, when I was very very poor, my favorite whistles were self-tweaks, and this is why I love my Blackbird. It has become clear to me that purer high pitched musical sounds zing the pleasure centers in my brain (this explains why I like mandolin too. :smiley: ). But I also need to play too loudly for my own comfort on an untweaked whistle, in order stay in good tone and tune.

I love my Cillian Ó Briain tweaked whistle too. My fave tweaked whistles earn my love by making me sound better with less skill, effort (and volume) than I need to sound decent on an untweaked one. There’s plenty of skill-deficit on my part to account for this, though!