Flute to pipes

How difficult is this transition? I just came across a few clips of Seamus Ennis on youtube which were inspiring. My sense, and correct me if i’m wrong - is that the fingering is exactly (more or less) the same but that one pumps the bag instead of breathes into the instument to produce sound?

I know this is a gross oversimplification, but as such is it accurate?

Jeff, there’s a lot more to piping than just a little difference in the fingering,
changing octaves is only one aspect and it’s a lot more difficult than any other instrument.
Here’s a chart anyway http://www.uilleann.org/The-Pipes-Chanter-Fingerings.html

If you still want to try the uilleann pipes, i suggest you rent rather than buy a practice set.

Besides the difference in fingering there is an enormous difference in the sheer maintainance of the uilleann pipes, and the adjustment & tuning of the reeds needed to ensure a hive of honeyed sounds. But it’s a wonderful instrument and if you’re slightly mad then possibly the instrument for you. I play both the pipes and the flute. Have a go, get hold of a practice set and good luck :party:

I think this is a myth thats often perpetuated by some pipers and those who are in awe of good pipers but aren’t going to take the plunge themselves. Some would argue it is to prepare newbies for the hard work necessary for one to be a good piper (as if you can be a slacker if you intend to be good on the flute) but I think it is often used to inflate egos and excuse perpetual mediocrity. More difficult to play than a whistle perhaps, but I don’t see how it is more difficult than doing justice to the fiddle, or playing the piano in other musical traditions. People who play those just dont spend so much time whining about how difficult it is to play their chosen instrument.

The fingering of the pipes and the flute are different, although there may be some similarities. There will also alternative fingerings to increase the tonal palatte of the pipes - without which the piping will sound bland. The main technical thing that will transition over as a flute player is that you’ll already have the finger mechanics of doing some ornaments like cuts taps and to some extent rolls. Apart from that the instruments are different and should be approached as such. Your prior experience with the music will also be helpful of course, such that you don’t have to learn both the instrument and the music from scratch.

I tried the pipes once for half an hour… and found the transition of the octaves the hardest part, i can’t imagine another instrument where the transition between the octaves is that hard. But i didn’t say it was the most difficult instrument overall. And if i were a 7 year old again, and could choose between harp and uilleann pipes, i’d go for the pipes. I think the harp would give me a terrible though time, i don’t like it’s ergonomics :laughing:

I’m a whistle/flute/shuttlepipes player but uilleann pipes absolutely fascinate me. If I could curb the urge to buy more whistles I would save the money for a practice set. There are also alot of similarities between whistle/flute fingering and scottish pipe fingerings and I have difficulty keeping my whistle playing style away from my pipes since I’ve played whistle for 15 years and just started with the shuttlepipes less than a year ago.

By the way…that chanter on the fingering chart that was posted is by far the prettiest chanter I’ve ever seen! Is that quilted boxwood?

the coolest part is the D crans are soooo much easier on the pipes!
takes no effort

flute’s a different matter entirely!
dm

Its only hard if you’re not used to working the bags and bellows, don’t know how to finger the upper octave notes or if the reed is problematic. At any rate I don’t think it one is qualified to judge what is difficult or easy about playing a different instrument from a half an hour trial.

Where we tend to think of flute as a matter of covering holes, I think it’s essential to think of the chanter’s fingering as being a matter of opening individual holes (more or less. And yes, there’s the option of playing on or off the knee, but playing on the knee is basic and one should start from there) as it’s a semi-closed system, and that’s the way to get staccato playing. If you want to play pipes at all well, I think one should be able to play in staccato fashion - not all the time, necessarily, but that’s the way the “pippety-pip” thing is done, and that’s a hallmark of Irish piping.

Here’s a very basic idea of chanter fingering. The leftmost x/o is the back d played with the upper hand thumb, and the rightmost is the bell note, played by lifting the chanter off of the knee; for basic playing, all other notes are done with the bottom of the chanter closed off on the knee:

x l x x x x x xx o = D
x l x x x x x xo x = “ghost D” or Eb-ish (may have to be played off the knee on some chanters)
x l x x x x x oo x = E
x l x x x x o xx x = F#
x l x x x o o xx x = G
x l x x o x x xx x = A
x l x o o x x xx x = B
x l o x x x o xx x = considered the basic Cnat, but there can be others
x l o x x x x xx x = C#
o l x x x x x xx x = yer back d

There’s often a key for 2nd 8ve Cnat, but it can be done without one.

  • the 2nd octave’s basically the same thing, pretty much. If you’ve got a good chanter and reed, G and g, and B can possibly be played with only one finger off the chanter for tight staccato runs where utter perfection of the note isn’t a big deal. Keyed accidentals, if you have them, aren’t a big deal, normally.

Now, these fingerings are just basic, remember, but I’m of the firm opinion that one has to master it that way first.

(Edit: Oops. Didn’t see the link to the fingering chart. Carry on.)

How about the Highland pipes? Only nine notes! How hard can it be? :laughing: :laughing:
How do I know? 16 years and counting on the Highland pipes.

With best regards,

Steve Mack

I found the transition from flute to pipes pretty easy and now stink at both. :smiley:

Interestingly, I have a buddy that’s an accomplished GHB player who tried my UPs and NSP and really struggled with the bellows. The bellows were never really a problem for me, even early on. Myabe because I’d never played pipes without bellows, maybe I just have a particularly smart elbow…who knows.

You will find the embouchure on the pipes to be much easiers than on flute. :wink: The main reason I took up pipes was so that I could make noise even if I had a cold sore or head cold. :laughing:

Doc

The transition was pretty easy for me.
The fingering is, as other have said, somewhat different. The way I think of it though, it’s pretty similar. Or at least, it feels similar, the main differences being C# and back d.

And there is the bellows/bag thing, which seems impossible at first, but after a month or two it becomes automatic as long as you don’t allow yourself to develop bad habits in the beginning.

And the octave thing, it really isn’t that hard once you figure out that you have to first close the chanter and squeeze the bag harder to get the second octave.

I say go for it! :slight_smile:

I have been playing whistle since 1993. I bought a 1/2 set of pipes in 2001. I’ve been learning the flute since late 2004. You can dip into the whistle, sure, and I practice the flute daily (not for long periods, though). I’m a terrible piper even after 6 years, but my flute playing is coming along to my satisfaction. If I might make an observation, the pipes are VERY demanding. I’d advise anyone wanting to learn the pipes to make it their only instrument, because it’s so demanding it’s practically a way of life. Maintaining (and making) reeds, tuning drones every time you play, carrying spools of thread, bundles of wax, the slightest change in heat or temperature sending your chanter reed all to hell, tuning holes with tape on the chanter, sticking rushes IN the chanter. A LOT of work.
m.d.