Agreed; I heard him mentioned reverentially several times when I was in Ireland, by all manners of flute players. Some even excitedly passed on a rumor that he’s recording again. I think Conal O Grada even said that Rafferty is a prime example of irish music done right.
All the Mike Rafferty (irish flute player) videos on youtube are gorgeous to me, Jem. Maybe you listened to the wrong guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6_xtBR4kaE
well, it wasn’t Gerry… 
You did indeed say that Jem, and I apologize heartily for missing it the first time through. 
All in all, I think it’s your usual case of “horses for courses.” (And we’re blessed to have so many horses!!!) I started out dazzled by certain bands and still have the capacity to be wowed by them today (though sometimes for different reasons now) – and indeed (now somewhat to my chagrin), my playing has probably been shaped by those folks the most since that was what I listened to for a long time. Like Brad, I thought of some of the older players as medicinal.
Not anymore, though. It sort of started with the Mulcahys, I guess, but now I seem to be on a quest for playing that reveals the beauty of a tune. To me, Mike Rafferty does this in spades.
(I’ve also come to really appreciate playing that my ears can keep up with!)
Lesl was telling a funny story about The Caucus at the NE Tionol – something about Mike and Willie Kelly “translating” the tune in an airport (since Willie reads music) and the tune somehow getting changed a bit (in a good way, of course! ).
Lesl, if you’re around … how’d that go again?
Anyway, like I said above … I feel so lucky there’s so much great stuff to listen to, new and old. It’s amazing how many lovely players there are these days and there truly is something for everyone.
Cool.
Oh, and as for tying back to the topic … there are plenty of pipers with varying styles, too! Next, let’s talk about pipers who play like flute players (and I do think there are a few). 
Ah, don’t go there, Cathy!
When one piper says of another that he (or she) “plays the pipes like a flute,” it’s meant as a put-down. The thing is, it’s fairly easy to play the pipes like a flute. But the result is not what I would call piping.
This thread seems to have strayed and I wonder if it should be a new topic. I have a pretty wide taste in old and new playing but over the years it‘s developing more to know what I like and what I‘m not so keen on. I feel each to their own.
I find a lot of the older players great. Great style. Feel, lift, dancability etc. Sometimes it’s the pure straightforwardness that gives the tune room to live and the soul of the music to comes through strong.
I often find older style players very refreshing . For me feeling in ITM is much more important than technique. Some older players had both of course. For example I’ve heard one classically trained player who plays ITM say he can’t listen to Tansey due to what he called ropey tuning and ‘it sounds like some old geezers in a session ‘. IMHO he is missing the point .
Micho Russell’s flute playing is a nice contrast for me to present prevalent styles. Not wishing to knock the present. Like his whistle playing it’s softness and relative straightforwardness suit’s the feel in his music. It has warmth, gentleness, life, and many other qualities that are very reflective of the people it came from. Like the best of them it is devoid of brashness and showiness. Charm!
Care and skill is needed not to let the technicality get in the way of the feelings within the music.
Anent Brad’s post …
Yes, alas, and I fear I may be one of them. 
Though I’m trying not to be!
Hey, while I’ve got you here …
Do you think that some of the newer “very open” open-style piping (I’m thinking of the super-fluid pipers like Louise Mulcahy, etc.) is more in line with flute playing or is that another thing altogether? It’s just something I’ve been wondering about in my struggles. (And if you don’t feel like expending the energy on an answer to that one, that’s cool. I’ll stumble across some sort of answer eventually; it’s part of the process, eh?)
Let me guess. I’m missing the nuance.
Again.
Argh.
I don’t understand Mike’s playing, too. There are so many talented flute player around that to me Mike’s playing just disappears when compared to them. Same with Micho Russel.
Well, I wouldn’t put Louise in the “flute-player style of piping” camp by any means…she’s more in line with the Mick O’Brien style of piping although her playing is evolving pretty rapidly and my sense is that she has found her own voice. To my ears, her flute playing and piping sound quite different from each other, which is the way it should be.
But yeah, in general the most open players are the ones who might be said to play the pipes like a flute. But even there, it’s a particular style of legato flute playing that they’re closer to. A piper who played the pipes the way Catherine McEvoy plays the flute would not be considered an open-style piper, for example. And Jimmy O’Brien-Moran is a fairly open-style piper (much more so than, say, Liam O’Flynn) and yet his piping is nothing like flute playing…it’s pure piping all the way. There’s a similar kind of range of “open” and “tight” flute playing as there is in piping, with most people situated somewhere between the two extremes but tending toward one side or the other.
Hey, thanks! I guess I still don’t thoroughly understand the definitions of “open” and “closed,” at least in terms of individual players’ sound. Me, I do hear a sort of a similarity in Louise’s playing of the flute and the pipes – but maybe I’m confusing “openness” with a flowing, fluid and forthright style. (Not quite legato, but flowing nonetheless.)
Thanks again. Sorry for being such a neuron. One day I’ll understand. (I hope!)
I hear more of that similarity on the Mulcahy family CD (Notes from the Heart) than I did when she was at the Catskills teaching pipes in 2007…there I felt her piping had changed in character.
There aren’t a lot of pipers I can think of whose playing is thoroughly tight…Chris Langan was an example who comes to mind; in the recordings I’ve heard of him every note was cut off and separated from the next. People often refer to Tommy Reck as an exponent of “closed” or “tight” piping and it’s true he was close to the end of that scale but in fact there’s a nice mix in his playing. Ennis and Clancy used a mix of both, as do most pipers today. Leo Rowsome was much more open. It’s really just a matter of how much staccato versus legato you have in your playing, but of course that can vary by tune…some tunes call for a tighter feel than others. The danger of entirely tight piping is that it can become too technical at the expense of musicality and good taste; the danger of entirely open piping is that it can become an unarticulated blur of notes with no clear rhythm.
Aha! In fact, their two CDs are indeed what I’m basing my impressions on.
And how did you know that’s exactly what I was debating on asking you next? Was just listening to Leo Rowsome thinking “Now that seems quite open”; to Ennis thinking “both”, and to Mick O’Brien (I only have Kitty Lie Over and his concert from last fall so no reference to his earlier stuff – I need to get May Morning Dew) and thinking he seemed more open too, so maybe my definition’s not as far off as I feared. I do hear him in Louise’s playing (he taught her some, didn’t he?) at least on those CDs, and I remember her telling us how enamored she was of Kitty Lie Over – in fact, I bought it after hearing her rave about it.
Might Sean Og Potts fall closer to the “tight” end of the spectrum, maybe?
But like you say, it’s what best serves the music at hand …
Anyway, thank you again. This helps a lot! 
(and hopefully doesn’t COMPLETELY leave the original thread question behind)
You’d have to go further back than May Morning Dew to hear his earlier style…the recording he did with his late brother Denis is a good example as is the “sweat-drop-off-the-nose” youtube video here of a young Mick O’Brien playing a gorgeous rendition of The Morning Thrush in a sweltering TV studio:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Z71B7n8kuOo
It seems a little tighter than the way he likes to play now.
And yes, I’d say Sean Og Potts would be more toward the tight end of the spectrum. But really most good pipers play a blend of tight and open, it’s far more interesting and musical than either extreme.
And my apologies too for totally hijacking this thread.
:faints:
Thank you much! And I see what you mean. I’m after that recording he made with Denis – he offered to make me a copy at Tionol but alas, no blank CDs at the mini-mart down the road. What’s that recording called? I think I’ll start trolling for it on Amazon, ebay, etc.
Thanks again. And hey, we’re not that far off-topic – “Flute Players talking about Pipers’ Playing” ?
. For me feeling in ITM is much more important than technique. .
Micho Russell’s flute playing is a nice contrast for me to present prevalent styles. Not wishing to knock the present. Like his whistle playing it’s softness and relative straightforwardness suit’s the feel in his music. It has warmth, gentleness, life, and many other qualities that are very reflective of the people it came from. Like the best of them it is devoid of brashness and showiness. Charm!
Care and skill is needed not to let the technicality get in the way of the feelings within the music.[/quote]
I enjoyed your post very much. Thank you for expressing some of my own thoughts so succinctly. Personally I grew up on recordings of guys like Russell, McDermott,Carty and so on. For me those old ‘greats’ are ITM. This does not mean to say that more contemporary musicians are not. Or that like Rafferty, there are not a few old timers still floating around who can show us how it’s done. I have recently been rather taken with a cd by a young flute player by the name of John Creaven. I purchased it at the same time as McEvoys ‘Home Ruler’ cd. At first I prefered McEvoy but have found that I am listening to Creaven more often. He’s not a Rafferty or a Russell, but his playing is extraordinarily subtle for a youngish guy and rewards more and more with perseverance. Dear Kate, as I like to call her, may well be the greater master (or mistress) of her instrument, but frankly I find her bland by comparison. Perhaps I shouldn’t have said that…I have a feeling I shouldn’t’ve.
Anyway I’m on days off and drunk as usual and was simply baffled that anyone could describe the great players as ‘medicinal’. Not looking to offend but simply baffled. I hear so much talk on here about tone and tuning etc which leads me to believe that those doing the talking have great musical sensitivity and yet then find the very same people describing Russell like he’s a dose of something the doctor gives you and not very pleasant to consume - but the bands are. I just don’t get it is all.
Apologies…drunk as usual
Nate
By some accounts her recent recordings haven’t quite captured the full Catherine McEvoy experience. The studio is just not the proper setting. Hearing her and live and in person is like a bolt of lightning.
Thank you for pointing that out to me. Actually I had been wondering all along if it was actually the recording production that I had difficulty with. It was this album (The Home Ruler) that I had in mind when I replied to another post on the use of reverb. I know nothing at all about recording techniques (so I am probabably wrong about this) but it seems to me that in an attempt to make more ‘natural’ sounding recordings the opposite effect is achieved. To my ear at least it is kind of the musical equivalent of airbrushing a photograph. You seem to end up with this superficially pleasing, glossy ‘sameness’. There is some of this quality about the John Creaven cd, mentioned above, as well. but for whatever reason it doesn’t seem to get in the way quite so much. This has all been completely off topic but it is something I would really like to understand more about. Perhaps I should start a new thread…o.k maybe not…I seem to suffer a bad case of stupid every time I come on here!
Nate
. I have recently been rather taken with a cd by a young flute player by the name of John Creaven. Nate[/quote]
I had that CD for a short time and thought it was great. I lent it to a flute beginer student and he ran off and I never saw him again.I hope he learnt well from it. I better look out for another copy.It’s good that some young players and no so young older are still playing a style which is ‘older’.
Hey Jem,
Check Grey Larsen’s book. You can view the snippet in question on Google Books by searching for “grey larsen crann recording.” He says the earliest recordings he found were John Mckenna’s The Five Mile Chase in 1925 and Tom Morrison’s Sweet Flowers of Milltown in 1927. There are a few more references in the text as well.
Cheers,
David
OK people, I’ve finally conquered the main lump of my Accounts and Tax doings and have a little time to do more online than just make quick posts… and it’s time for humble pie!
I’ve followed up on what Mike Rafferty clips I could find on YouTube (only a couple) and, together with viewing some clips newly posted by Larry Mallette (oldflute) of Kevin Henry I’ve realised I’ve been confusing my venerable Irish-American fluters! It was definitely other clips by the latter that I was thinking of when posting (somewhat disparagingly) previously in this thread. I actually had only seen the Comhaltas Rafferty clip previously, and that a good while back and had forgotten it - wasn’t thinking of it when I posted. Please re-apply my previous comments to Kevin Henry, because that is who I was thinking of/remembering viewing - and I haven’t changed my mind even after seeing the newly posted clips, which are at least a bit better (especially the F flute one) than the ones that have been on YouTube for some time.
On the small exposure I’ve now had to him knowing for sure of whom I speak, I think Mike Rafferty is quite a different matter. I can’t say the clips I’ve seen excite me very much or make me want to rush to get his CDs, but they are at least more than half-decent. I’d still say I’d like to have heard him in his prime. He’s a nice player for sure, and referring back to the thread topic, I don’t see (on admittedly small evidence) a great deal of piping style in his fluting for all he’s a piper too.
So, I was wrong, at least in misremembering who was who and what I’d seen. Sorry!
Also BTW, since they’ve been mentioned, I 
love the Mulcahys - was fortunate to have their first album to review. 
McDafydd - thanks for the info and for picking up on that point I made earlier and to which no-one else had responded. I don’t have Larsen’s book and haven’t actually seen it in the flesh…but I’ll go google that snippet.