If you did alter, say a Copeland, it would cease to be a Copeland etc.
Most the makers I know are more than keen to support the instruments they have produced. Tuning, adjustments and repairs are the best positive feedback they can get - it assists them to improve their skill, with the whistling community benefitting in the long run.
Repair advice for a cheapie is perfectly legitimate - might be right, might be wrong. The usual adjustments for mass-produced whistles are pretty well known and there’s only a few dollars at stake.
Hand made whistle, on the other hand. often include special features that are not common knowledge. Lopping a few bits off the end might have some unexpected results
FWIW at this point … CranDog, you might still send it back to Michael C. and have him give it a once-over. I had him custom revoice my vintage-2000 nickel D last year, and I’m very pleased with the results. Michael is a real gentleman and a genuine pleasure to deal with.
Loren, I believe Jim Rementer is no longer involved, and Michael, along with Pam, has resumed personal control of both his business and his craft.
I’m curious … what sort of tuner are you using that needs calibration? The only one I have like that is my wonderful classic Conn ST-11 Strobotuner. My others are all quartz-locked and spot on.
I also quite like the software-based Shakuhachi tuner for checking and adjusting whistle intonation. I believe Terry McGee was involved with its development.
Not suggesting that one should mess with a custom whistle but if one did chop a little off to raise the pitch of the bell note would not the octave D also be raised? and is it not true that this note is played more frequently …
Now I have a wonderfully playing generation C whistle which in truth is nearly a C# whistle (more than 50 cents sharp) that I have not messed with and an expensive Loree oboe that has a wonderfully in tune G# due to a little nail polish judishly applied to effect the lower G# and not the octave or was the other way round - it was a while ago.
So I guess I’m saying know what you are doing and if its not reversible be willing to consider it a learning experiance!
Bill
use a nail polish you can see so that you can remove it if needed - I used red
Indeed, in the first post in reply to your thread I let you know, if you read and interpreted what was said, that the only way to fix a flat bell note is to shorten the bore. My reply assumed you understand the basic concept of the pitch being determined by the length of a column of air in motion. The length of the air column being determined by the holes or in case of the bell note the full length of the bore (there are a few complexities that can influence certain notes that I for simplicity’s sake ignore here). Hence the suggestion to take the saw to it. Tongue in cheek ofcourse, it’s a foolish approach for non makers/non musicians to alter instruments armed with only a little knowledge.
I made the caveat, if you read the small print, that 20 cents is well within the range of any whistle where pitch is influenced by the amount of wind the player is trying to push through the bore. Certainly in the light of your regular declarations you’re a strong blower it’s worth considering if you’re maybe blowing the whole scale slightly sharp. Too often people complain about a problem when it turns out the problem is quite the reverse: pipers on a humid day complaining their bottom D goes sharp while actually the humidity opening the reed has flattened the A and G. Or beginning flute players complaining about a sharp octave while they are actually blowing their lower octave flat because their embouchure is under developed.
Ofcourse my reply assumed a musician’s approach: detecting the problem by ear, had you used your ear you would have spotted the issue was a non issue. But you used an faulty electronic gizmo instead of common sense and cried wolf.
Although I did extend you the courtesy of assuming you were able to give a proper interpretation to my first post, I am not sure I should have.
So who’s the fool in all this?
You really give yourself away here:
Ah, yes, let’s try insult someone by invoking where he’s from. A touch of the good ol’ xenophobia and a hint of racism. And you’re lecturing people on courtesy? From Texas are you? (see: it’s the dumbest level you can stoop to).
My other Dutch friend could never quite get it right; he would say :dot your Tees and cross your eyes; which I always thought presented an amusing picture.
So, can a white man play the blues? Can a blue man play the whites? Can a Dutch boy play the greens? Only the shadow knows.
I concur with this line of response. One doesn’t even have to speak Irish Gael to appreciate this let alone being immersed in the Irish culture. There are certain universals that transcend culture.
Its all about the EAR isn’t it? If you are in the glades and you hear a birdsong you can still appreciate it, its timbre, its metre or whatever - you don’t need to understand the bird’s language. The bird may be singing, "Keep out, from the fig to the swamp be my domain! Keep out, from the fig … " but that isn’t imprtant, there is existential music in it that can inform a composition.
In fact, one doesn’t even need to be an instrumentalist to make the observation. An intelligent observer, with some knowledge, and a love of music could say what Peter has said. It would still be valid.
And does one need to bea proficient martial artist to call every second person “dude” with aplomb? (None of the karateka I know go around calling people “dude”). It must be an American thang.
CranberryDog, leaving aside the little problem you have found with your tuner, is it reasonable to assume that the whistle is in tune with it’s self? You also mentioned that you are a novice flute player. I play flute and whistle and have tried many other flutes and whistles belonging to other people. Now to get to the point… I have found that some whistles, and even more so flutes, can be slightly off pitch on the bell note.
I found through a little bit of trial and error that in most cases it was me, not the whistle/flute that was causing the flatness or sharpness. So through a little bit of adjustment to the pressure I was blowing through the instrument I found that I was able to solve the problem.
Could this underblowing on the bell note be what is causing you grief?
Have you tried increasing your breath pressure on the bottom D to find how hard you have to blow before you get the octave jump? It may be that you will be able to blow the whistle sharp by increasing your breath pressure.
If indeed there is a real problem with a flat bell note, it is a simple thing to fix, send it back to the maker and your problem will be solved.
Shortening the tube length to bring the bell note back into tune with the rest of the whistle should not be a problem for your original maker.
You could have a go yourself, but remember it would be unreversable!!
Good luck.
Wise stuff here. The starting point in tuning a whistle has to be how you blow it. Everyone blows a whistle a bit differently and what is in tune when you play it might not be in tune when somebody else plays it.
But if it’s a given that you are blowing a whistle the way you want to, and you’re consistent in your blowing, if the bell note is flat you have to chop the tube. Unless…
The tricky bit is that this also sharpens the middle D, and sometimes the two (bottom D and middle D) happen to play at different pitches. Then you have to decide where you want your D’s pitched.
I have whistles on which middle D is bang-on but bottom D a tad flat. I just have to blow bottom D a tad stronger, because chopping the bottom would result in a sharp middle D.
I actually thought you spelled “moran” that way on purpose. I frequently visit fark.com, where the posters will use the phrase “moran” to mean something along the lines of “extra special dumb” in flame wars.
So, when you said Loren was talking to you like a “moran” I read more depth of meaning into it than was intended. The error is my own.
The urban dictionary website usually has multiple (sometimes dozens) of user-submitted definitions for words. Rather than taking the top-rated definition, Peter chose one of the more insulting ones and applied it to you. I was taken aback, but I wasn’t interested in butting heads with him on the issue.
Rather than taking the top-rated definition, Peter chose one of the more insulting ones and applied it to you.
Yes, but given the chip with my name on it Cranberry’s Dog has been carrying around on his shoulder in recent months I don’t think it was all that bad a choice, especially after his own responses to this thread painted him in no uncertain light I don’t regret doing what I did at all. It was just too tempting.
That aside, I appreciated the link, my initial post on the Moran/Moran thing came about because there was something playing around my head involving a forum member who is far from a moron but indeed carries the surname Moran, who will come and visit me next week. But that is maybe a bit beside the point here.
You’re too old for me to tell you how to behave in public, Peter
I was more concerned that the way you quoted the site would give the mistaken impression that the insult was coming from me. But in the end, i decided it wasn’t worth worrying about that much.
I forgot to mention that shortening the length of the tube affects the middle D, making it sharper. (As mentioned by pancelticpiper)
Depending how far flat the bottom D is in relation to the middle D being close to in tune, then the more the bottom D is altered to come into tune the sharper the middle D will become.
Glad you found that out before spending post money, or firing up the chainsaw.
