Hello everyone!
I have been wondering.. Is it really necessary to open left hand index finger for playing the first note of the second octave?
I have been comparing some recordings with “re” note played by index finger open or closed.. and I realized that one is not better sounding the the other..
I was previously playing bansuri, so I was not accostomed to opening the index finger. I think it is a significant difficulty for some ornamentations.
Do you think that it is an important factor? Why?
Firstly, not all instruments need it to be vented; if it works without, I’d go with that.
(It seems some manufacturers instruments need it, whilst others don’t, so it is just the way it has been voiced.)
If this is the last flute you’ll ever buy, and you don’t hear the note getting noticeably more clear and strong with venting, then it’s an easy decision to avoid learning the technique. On the other hand, flutes seem to vary with how much venting clears up that note, so it might be a good idea to get in the habit if you’re thinking of buying another flute in the future.
Both the flutes I’ve owned sounded enough stronger with venting on that note that I learned to do it. It slowed me down at first, but eventually it got to the point where I don’t have to think about venting. My fingers just do it automatically on that note.
The vented second octave D is often somewhat louder and sweeter,
the unvented more edgy. Good to have the vented fingering under your
belt, since it is beautiful and useful. This is the most popular fingering.
I find the edgy second octave D acoustically
interesting, too, rather like the edgy first octave D. Worth exploring even on
longer soundings of the note, IMO.
I use both. I agree that finally doing what works for you on this issue is fine.
On my flute it doesn’t sound much difference to the sound either way. I think the breath requirement differs though and I find I often don’t vent if coming from an upper octave note but almost always do vent when coming from a lower octave note. In both cases the pressure to get what I want is closer to what I am already doing. I vented when I was first learning.
Thank you very much for all your ideas. It really helped very much.
I think I’ll continue to try both.
Mostly I just vent it when playing “doublings” or crans on the 2nd octave D because they sound stronger then. Or when moving from C nat to D – like oxxxox and then oxxxxx or sometimes oxoxxx and oxxxxx. So you only need to put down one finger to go from C nat to D in the 2nd octave.
Just a note to agree with ConicalBore. On the majority of wooden and delrin flutes I’ve played there is a significant difference in tonal quality and loudness with the second octave D played with the index finger raised. Learn to do this and make it your default ‘d’. I’ve been in workshops with a number of very well-known and fine players and they all play ‘d’ this way and recommend that their students do also. It is fine to experiment with the non-vented d, but not to the extent of making it your ‘go-to’ d. Chet
Interesting, as I’ve been asking myself the same thing recently. I’ve become aware it is the recommended fingering.
I have never needed to vent nor noticed any tone issues by not venting on any whistle or flute that I’ve played, admittedly a finite number. My present breath control may cover up any problems, that I might have had as a newby.
Like Sedi, I occasionally take advantage of it when going to D from C-nat OXO XXX, or on C-Rolls.
I have noticed on my medium-sized Rudall, that the attack isn’t as fast when dropping quickly from high B down to D. But, the attack or initiation of the note doesn’t bother me when going down from closer notes, nor going up to the D from below.
By me, from an 2018 thread on this.
From Brad Hurley’s site:
‘Jack (Coen) observed that most of us opened the topmost tonehole when we played the high D, but said that it’s not necessary and just makes for more work. You can use the same fingering for the high D as the low D: all fingers down. (Brad adds) I personally find that my flute “sings” a touch more fully if I open the top hole on the high D, but it would only be noticeable in slow tunes or airs. For dance music it doesn’t matter.’
So there is some controversy here, at least within ITM. With the L1 hole vented, the second octave D
sings with a sweet and pure sound. Unvented, the note is edgy, a bit ‘harder,’ which some flooters find
more expressive when played well (practice).
Unquestionably the open top tone hole is more popular. Plainly people should be able to do it.
I’ve wondered about this as I watch videos of skilled players who seem to vent. I generally don’t vent L1 unless the tune calls for an extended note–slow tunes. On my Jay Ham I don’t hear a significant difference between venting and not venting; they both sound great to my ear. On some of my low whistles, it definitely makes a difference.
It’s actually something that I do not pay any real conscious attention to when playing. Playing through a handful of tunes just now, it turns out I almost always vent L1 on the flute, but do it with far less consistency on the whistle. I do hear a tonal difference between the two, more so on the flute than the whistle, but with breath control can pretty much make either sound like the other. When trying to analyse when I do and don’t vent on the flute, it does seem to be more dependant on my breathing and how much I’m leaning into a particular note or phrase than the fingering I’m coming from or how fast I’m playing, but it all sort of just happens without thinking about it.
I always vent for second octave d. I’ve done it since first learning to play the flute. I play Rudall flutes, a Pratten model flute and a Rudall model flute. Feels and sounds right to me.
Learning both is a good idea. Plus using that hole for finger vibrato works really well.