My most recent posts have had much to do with ethics, so I thought to continue the idea.
As we have been seeing the sharp decline of the CD over the past years, many of us who have very large CD collections have converted them to more portable (and user friendly) formats. The decline of the CD as a viable format has even stretched to ITM, with many of our favourite artists offering digi-downloads as an alternative to the CD. As for myself, I have well over 200 commercially available ITM CDs, and though I enjoy reading the liner notes, I simply don’t use my CDs anymore.
Here’s the question:
Is the sale of “pre-owned” commercially available ITM CDs at a discounted price, ethical?
Of course, CDs sound better than a compressed file. Yes, there are some sites that offer High-Quality downloads (AIFF, WAV, etc). However, to keep on point, lets aim this thread towards the question of selling Cds, as opposed to discussing the varying quality different files may offer. Thanks.
Just to clarify, you’re talking about the SALE, not the purchase. In other words, it’s the ethics of the seller you want to discuss. I buy a CD, listen to it, decide I no longer want it in my collection and sell it.
If that is what you’re referring to, then I think it is ethical. If I don’t like it or “grow out of it”, or decide ITM no longer rings my bell, I shouldn’t be married to the CD. If I throw it away, I’ll have less money to buy other CDs and so other artists will be deprived of income. So for me it would be more ethical to sell the CD I don’t like.
I can’t tell from what you say who it is that might be being harmed. For it to be unethical wouldn’t it need to be harming somebody’s livelihood?
The issue of copying seems to me to be more of an issue in the ITMA because there might be a perceptible impact on the financial welfare of the artist if they’re not getting what’s owed to them.
because that way you’ve bought it with the intention of getting yourself a copy for your ipod then recouping some of the costs by selling the hard copy, and that way the artist only gets paid once even though 2 parties have paid for the privilege of owning their work?
Selling /reselling an opened and “listened-to” CD is (imho) not unethical, unless its damaged and wont play. As a “repeatable-use” tangible object, the same standard is applicable to discs, blenders, cars, cribs, tv’s, lawnmowers…etc
However, it IS unethical for a profitable company to lobby for legislation that lowers artist royalty rates from an already-too-low current rate; to an even lower share ($39.US for 3.1 Million plays in the ex. below).
Something for everyone to think about next time they stream content.
Unfortunately in this current climate, It’s up to the artist (or their handler) to control how and where their content is distributed. ( and we all thought functional harmony was the difficult bit roflmfaoffs)
From my perspective, Pay-per dwnld’s (with free 30 sec samples) are probably going to be the optimal choice for artists in the forseeable. Add in some live gigs & a bit of merch, & its pretty much all the juice we got.
Ethical to sell the CDs you own (and for whatever price you can get).
NOT ETHICAL to keep the music after you have done so (tape, digital, CD-R backups, etc.).
BTW, the CDs I have sold in the past are all originals. I either had my own additional CD that remains in my collection, or I didn’t care for the content and am willing to do without.
I’m a little more fuzzy on items that are out-of-print, live performances, etc. The rights to that intellectual property usually do belong to someone (performer, label, composer, family or heirs), and it is probably unethical to distribute it without their permission. For instance, some recordings go in and out of print, or might be intended for re-release at a future date, and they can definitely be harmed.
IF you are troubled by possible ethical conflicts that might arise from the sale of recorded music,
I accept all free piping CDs.
There, problem solved!
is it the case that in some cases a recording has to sell quite a bit in the first place just to pay for itself - I am thinking of something like liam o’flynn’s solo cds which sound like pretty big productions to me
Ethics aside of whether you keep your digital copy or not… I would think it could be argued that the artist might be harmed by selling of secondhand material. After all, if I can get a CD used from someone else, that keeps me from buying it new from the artist, yes?
A few years ago I put about 100 cd’s on ebay because I had them on a hard drive and I wasn’t really going to listen to those ones any more. After ebay fees I made about $150 and I spent the money on new albums…
The thing is a person who buys a used “Tommy Martin” or whoever cd for $2 on ebay probably wouldn’t have spent the $10 or $15 on the same thing new. But if they like it they may buy another cd from the same artist at the regular price. It’s happened me anyway.
Usually if I buy a cd nowadays I upload it and give it to someone else unless its a rare edition or a first edition from a new band.
is the reason new itm releases are not on vinyl because they’d be too expensive to manufacture in relatively small quantities? all the big rock acts seem to have their new material available on vinyl for about £20 against about £12 for a cd
I don’t think it’s unethical just to sell a CD, but I do think it is unethical to buy a CD, rip it to your computer, then sell the CD for profit. This is wrong for obvious reasons.
As far as CD’s that are out of print goes- I think in most cases it’s ethical to do this. If a CD has been out of print for years, and a person really wants it and somebody has it on disk, I see nothing wrong with that person sending the music to somebody else, while still having the music for themselves either on their computer or on disk…as it might never be in print again. Of course some CD’s come back into print, but I personally wouldn’t deny myself obtaining music that I love with the hopes that a CD that has been out of print for several years is going to be re-released. It simply might never happen!
Not necessarily. Some people might want the CD and intend to buy it new, but check to see if a used copy is available first, because they’d be getting the same thing for cheaper. I’ve sought out used copies of books and CD’s, after having the initial intention of buying it new. It’s the same thing for lower cost, so provided it’s in good condition, it would just be throwing money away to get the new copy, in my opinion (except for collectors, maybe).
Regardless, I think it is only a matter of time before the whole deal of paying for music has ended for good. It’s easier and easier to get music without paying, and eventually I think musicians won’t be able to rely on this for a way to make money anymore, sadly.
Ennischanter, You’ll find some great vinyl bargins on ebay from time to time.
There are a good few sites that specialize in vinyl too. You can pick up some very rare Irish music albums for a great price on Jazz or Classical collectors websites because those collectors aren’t interested in Irish music.
Not necessarily. Some people might want the CD and intend to buy it new, but check to see if a used copy is available first, because they’d be getting the same thing for cheaper.
That happens too alright. We’ve all done it with books and cd’s alike.
Regardless, I think it is only a matter of time before the whole deal of paying for music has ended for good. It’s easier and easier to get music without paying
Well it can’t end for good but it will change. (I don’t mean to pick holes in your point, just my opinion)
The money to record has to come from somewhere. The traditional format of recording-production-distribution-sale is changing and may well end but someone has to pay eventually. Artists from Paddy Keenan to U2 still rely on a certain % of gross income from CD sales to be able to afford to tour and perform.
But the economies of scale are changing too. It doesn’t cost as much as it used to to record a quality album and with bands releasing albums independant of major labels profit margins are increasing. A major label used to give you $1 or $1.50 per CD sold at $15 in a store. Nowadays your profit margin from a CD sold at a show should be 50% or so, depending on how you distribute production costs per unit.
As a professional musician I’m kinda put off the idea of making another CD, for the above reasons and not knowing where it’s all going, but I have tunes and nice arrangements of tunes that I still want to share so I’ll get to it eventually.
Musicians with a moderate following these days make far more from touring than recorded music sales.
Even to the extent that the cd/mp3/video can be seen as promotional material for the tour.
And not just the tour; the t-shirt, the coffee mug, the ringtone, the perfume…etc etc.
I’m still waiting for that Paddy Keenan aftershave
But of course many top pipers have a day job and don’t have the time to tour extensively.
Then there is the principle that everything should have a second hand value.
The recent ReDigi attempt to build up a second hand mp3 market died in the courts.
Now when you buy digital you are now giving up that right.
If you don’t think you should sell second hand… just buy digital.
Then what you have bought has just lost all it’s monetary value.
Then there is the idea that the music industry doesn’t want you to buy music any more.
They want you to pay a monthly fee and have whatever you want streamed to whatever device you have in front of you.
Lots of changes are happening in how we can choose to use music, mainly driven by piracy and the fight against it.
