Can you play in the same style as Seamus Egan on a Grinter Blackwood Flute or at least make it sound very similar. Or do you have to have a Olwell Cocus Flute to do it?
These are my opinions-everyone is different-just for background info:
Matt Molloy’s style is not one that I want to emulate (too breathy and raunchy for my taste and the sound I want to create (especially on the Boosey), Crawford has a nice mellow flow and he plays a grinter cocus, But their is something about Egan’s style of play that I find most attractive, a great combination of the two, and I want to use that as a starting point to work on aquiring a new style of play. Anything Egan does on flute immediately gets my attention.
But then again Lawrence Nugent plays a Olwell Cocus, although I like his playing his style is not one that I would want to emulate. Sounds completely different to me than Egan. Weird-Two players, same flute, totally different sound and style.
So if that’s the case maybe it is possible on a Grinter?
Any input on this? (be nice and straightforward-please don’t pick at the
holes in my post-I know they are there), Just is it possible or not?
It has been said many times on this board that the player makes a much bigger difference in the sound than the flute does. As you pointed out, two people can play the same flute and make it sound very different. By contrast, the same person can play two very different flutes and often make them sound very similar, because that’s that person’s particular style.
Getting a different flute won’t make you sound like Seamus Egan. The only thing that will is a heck of a lot of practice (and a ridiculous amount of talent). If you already have a good flute that you like, work with that until you achieve the sound you want.
Steven
I play a blackwood Grinter right now, It’s a very good flute.
Seamus Egan’s style has everything to do with Seamus Egan and absolutely nothing to do with the flute he plays.
If you’re playing a blackwood Grinter right now, that’s a very good flute. Stick with it and develop your own style.
Interesting as I was asking some days ago for opinions on Grinter and Wilkes keyless blackwood D flutes. I’d like a Wilkes, but there is 7-8 year hiatus ,and even if a Wilkes was to come up for sale the price would be much more than the price of a new one today I guess. So I’m thinking of going for a keyless blackwood Grinter in spite of the cost (around 1200 euros) as it’s only a 12 month wait I believe. I too like the more wild uncouth, honking, barking flute sound (yes I live in a cave). I’ve tried a Hamilton keyless but couldn’t get the bottom notes to sound easily as on my Williams flute whereas a keyed Grinter I tried was very easy to sound even the bottom notes.
Tell me OddDane do you manage to achieve this barking on your Grinter at all? I also agree that it has to do mostly with the musician and the sound you want to express and much practice
I just wanted to add one thing I noticed because I’m alittle confused when it comes to this subject.
If you listen to Kevin Crawford on his first solo album he plays a Wilkes Blackwood-I don’t like the sound he gets at all
When he plays the Grinter Cocus it sounds completely different, big difference between flute sound, which I like and obviously he likes because he stuck with the Grinter
On the other hand, Conal O’Grada got a big sound out of his old R&R that he used to play (I always thought it was a Pratten because it sounded so big and strong), he rertired that flute and plays a Hamilton and gets a big sound out of that as well, so very little difference between flutes.
Does Cocus change the sound that much? I heard Crawford said he’ll never go back to blackwood (I don’t know if that is a true statement) maybe he just wasn’t happy with the Wilkes Blackwood he was playing.
On The Flute Obsession 1st CD there is a French guy who played a Lehart (whichis a great flute) and he was quoted as saying that he didn’t like the sound of his flute on that song (it was a fantastic song by the way and he’s a great player), He now plays an Abei and he’s very satisfied with his sound.
Gosh, get ready for the deluge.
Comments about flutes versus players and cocus versus blackwood tend to bring out the worst in C&F posters. You’ll get what initially seem to be really level-headed posts about the merits of various makes of flute, or of various timbers. Then a subsequent poster will give a differing opinion, and it will disintegrate into mudslinging. People’s playing skills questioned . . . maker’s ethics questioned . . . it gets REALLY really involved.
My OWN opinion is that the person matters more than the flute, but that the flute does contribute. I think when you mention the differences between different performances by the same player on different instruments, part of it may be that player’s style is better suited to one or another design. Timber . . . well, I think if you really REALLY tied everyone down and forced them to choose, you might get COCUS as an answer more often than anything else. But cocus is not without its serious shortcomings, including a nasty tendency to crack and a potentially nastier potential to provoke serious allergic reactions.
I know it’s an old saw, but seriously, these posts arise from the idea that there is some kind of substitute for playing an instrument before you buy it. Or, in the case of the custom instrument (like most of the flutes we’re talking about), in playing samples by that maker. There is absolutely no substitute. Zero. Buying an Olwell won’t make you sound like Molloy; you might sound more like Molloy on a Wilkes R&R. In the realm of nearly every other instrument, meaning stuff like oboes, or trumpets, or pianos, the idea of buying something completely sight-unseen or sound-unheard, touch-unfelt is absolutely ridiculous.
Wow, look at me, getting going on this old topic . . . sorry to derail your thread. Heh!
Stuart
Stu is right-- there is no substitute for trying a flute before you buy it. But for how long? I find that a week or so is the time it takes to even begin to evaluate a new flute.
If you buy from a reputable maker there will be no problem sellng a flute that you haven’t bonded to. Buyers of flutes made by Olwell, Wilkes, Grinter, Noy, Byrnes, etc-- the four-star makers – will have no problem at all finding a home for their unwanted flute.
The same goes for good antique flutes, Rudalls obviously, and Metzler, Clementi, Monzani and others as well. My advice is: buy it and don’t worry. If you don’t like it somebody will gladly buy it from you and you should receive at least what you paid for it
Hi OdinDane
surely Seamus Egan can play like Seamus Egan, even on a Grinter!
Listening and keeping inspiration from great musicians is surely a very important process while learning an instrument.Trying to copy them is important too,but is something that we must exceed,IMHO.
Nobody will never play LIKE Egan,Crawford or whoever else, lots of people instead sound like a badly made
copy of them.My personal advice for you is: keep playing the Grinter,that
is a well made instrument, and work on shaping your own style, that would
suit both your personal taste and YOUR NATURE. Maybe if you can’t play
like Seamus Egan it doesn’t depend by the flute!Good luck!
Ciao
Michel
I agree that you should keep the Grinter. But I would add that you should certainly buy another flute. A second flute (or a fifth!) might inspire you to spend more time playing.
A different flute also requires that you develop your technique to incorporate the slightly different cut of the embouchure hole, or a different bore and perhaps slightly different tuning. Once again, a good flute does not go down in value. It represents a solid investment.
A second good flute won’t of itself be the answer to your playing problems. Only more playing time will do that. But it could get you to spend more time with a flute to your lips.
A good teacher wouldn’t be a bad idea either. You needn’t pay for the teaching. Just a few minutes here and there with a good player, asking a question, looking at the formation of the embouchure and listening to a hard bottom D, will lead you a long ways. When I lived in Clare and crossed over from fiddle to flute I would drive Michael Hynes crazy at sessions with my incessant badgering about how he got such a strong tone, such a booming D, and how he’d do a high octave ornament. He was patient and I was grateful. I even bought his great CD with Dennis Liddy: Waifs and Strays.