Dymondwood Is Not Indestructable

So I take out my Sweetheart Pro to have a couple tunes and there are four splits from the bell up one reaches past the last tone hole. :cry: It was residing in the pocket of my jacket, it is a mystery how it cracked as I am either wearing my jacket or it is hung up. Of course I have emailed Ralph, but am posting this as a sort of warning. Dymondwood can break, if you plan on geting something in Dymondwood and caring it around with you, make sure you get a hard case.

Make that five cracks there is one that runs from the 6th to 5th hole.

I’ve mentioned this before, but I’ll say it again, Dymondwood is actually more susceptible to breakage, in some cases, than many natural woods. I’m not suggesting that it’s an inapropriate or poor material for instruments, however it’s not as strong as some tend to believe - it certainly won’t survive the same sort of abuse polymer instruments can take, nor can it even withstand some of the maximum stresses that many of the tougher natural woods can handle.

If you have a dymond wood instrument and you want it to last, treat it like you’d treat any “normal” fine wooden instrument, and you shouldn’t have any problems. This includes the suggestion not to carry them in your pocket without the instrument being in a hard case :wink:



Loren

When mine was new, the headpiece cracked in the first week. Ralph was very good about it, and replaced it without question. He stated at the time that he’d had a bad batch of Dymondwood that was more prone to cracking. It’s been fine since, but I’m pretty gentle with it.

Unfortunately this has been an issue with this type of laminate wood for over 20 years. Back when I managed a musical instrument store in the mid to late 80’s, we carried Dymond wood drum sticks, which were far more prone to breakage than your standard hickory or oak drumsticks. I also played drumset at the time, so I found this out through my own experience, in addition to that of my customers, who all agreed that while the stuff looked cool (dymondwood, or whatever they were calling it at the time), it didn’t hold up so well to the pounding of the given application.

We got the company excuse about “bad batches” on more than one occasion, and eventually, we stopped carrying the sticks, because it seemed like they either had lots of production issues resulting in too many “bad batches”, or they simply weren’t being honest with us. I have no way of knowing which was the case. Honestly, after 20 years, I’d have expected them to have perfected the process…


Loren

Dude, you must be near as old as me.. :smiley:

Philo

Got an email from Ralph who tells me they have not been getting good Dymondwood lately. He said they will be changing their building process. He is also sending me a new foot joint. :slight_smile: I was pretty worried, this was my favorite session whistle.

I’d better be more careful. Mine goes with me just about everywhere. (In a soft case)

Agreed. Dymondwood’s advantage is in it’s being resistant to moisture, not any additional strength. Then, there’s the wild and crazy color advantage, if you are interested in that… :smiley:

Yeah, man, I’m verging on Geezerhood :laughing:


Loren

Agreed, the stuff should be impervious to changes in humidity, short of dropping it in the ocean for an extended period.

I do wonder what, if any, effect rapid or extreme changes in temperature have on this material though - like the cold/heat cycles experienced by an instrument during winter time going from a below freezing cold car or backpack, to being played in a very warm room in short span of time, or vice versa? One imagines that the adhesive material chosen would be able to deal with these changes, however, this Dymondwood stuff wasn’t designed specifically for this application.

Paul, has the company provided you with any specs with regards to temperature ranges etc., for the material? I read somewhere that Dymondwood is likely to suffer breakage if drilled below 40 degrees F, which leads me to believe that the resins used may become significantly brittle at cold temps.


Loren

Hmmm, that brings the question of what application was Dymondwood originally made for?

Oh poo. I really wanted on of those. Maybe he’ll start making them out of mopane. I have a mopane flute that has really stood up well to less than perfect care.

I suspect it wasn’t designed for a specific application, but rather it was designed to be more “Marketable” product than the components would be until combined, if you see what I mean…

It’s used a lot for pen turning blanks, knife handles, small turned objects, and so on - applications where stresses to the wood are very low, in general.


Loren

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that whistles made from Dymondwood aren’t worth buying, just treat them with reasonable care. Paul and the Sweets are all stand-up folks, as they’ve proven many times over, and in the unlikely event you’d have a problem, they’d no doubt take care you.


Loren

Thank you Loren.

Boy, that is terrible…I think a lot of people expect it to hold up better than wood.

Loren, what Ralph told me is that the Dymondwood they have been getting is not as impervious to moisture as it should be. Now as you and the rest of us Northeasterners have noticed, the temp and humidity have gone done significantly since last Friday. The whistle being transported in and outside because it was in my jacket could have “shocked” the material and thus formed cracking. Plus, last Friday I was in MA and I am now back in NJ. Yes, Paul and the Sweets are still worth buying instruments from as both will go to the ends of the Earth so to speak to fix a customers problem and will usually do it for free. That makes me wonder how Sweetheart stays in business as I have met another person with Dymondwood that had this happen and Crookedtune has had the same thing happen. Both had the parts replaced at no charge and now me.

Jessie, that is kind of my reason for posting this, a warning. As much as one may respect Loren and Paul, there is more to be said when one has first hand experience.

Well, there you go, it should be stronger than it is as well, so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.

Now as you and the rest of us Northeasterners have noticed, the temp and humidity have gone done significantly since last Friday. The whistle being transported in and outside because it was in my jacket could have “shocked” the material and thus formed cracking. Plus, last Friday I was in MA and I am now back in NJ.

I’d highly suspect temperature to be the culprit, as humidity changes normally take days, weeks, or even months to cause damage. OTH, nearly instant cracking due to temperature changes is not uncommon at all - my flute instructor’s Olwell cracked in the unlined left hand section one night after leaving a gig and walking out into the cold with it (in a flute roll.) It’s a shame you didn’t have that whistle in a case, that way damage due to impact and/or pressure could reasonably be ruled out.

Yes, Paul and the Sweets are still worth buying instruments from as both will go to the ends of the Earth so to speak to fix a customers problem and will usually do it for free. That makes me wonder how Sweetheart stays in business as I have met another person with Dymondwood that had this happen and Crookedtune has had the same thing happen. Both had the parts replaced at no charge and now me.

Well, that’s the chance a maker takes when using a material not yet proven reliable for a given application…

Jessie, that is kind of my reason for posting this, a warning. As much as one may respect Loren and Paul, there is more to be said when one has first hand experience.

Well, as I said, I do have first hand experience with the stuff, and I’d personally never use it for instrument making - did I come across as sounding like I’m a fan of Dymondwood? I didn’t mean to. OTH, I’m not ready to condemn those who choose to use it for their whistles, as long as they stand behind the product.

I do think it’s important for end users like yourself to share experiences both good and not so positive, with regards to instruments and materials, and I have no doubt this thread has served the purpose you intended. I do hope that folks see both sides of the issue however and realize that without more facts, it’s not possible to know exactly what the cause of the damage to your whistle, or others, is. I’m not a fan of Dymondwood, but I’m also not a fan of wooden instruments carried around without hard cases, nor am I a fan of wooden instruments being taken rapidly through temperature and humidity extremes - as all have been known to cause cracking or other types of damage. In the case of the whistles in question, perhaps the materials are to blame, perhaps the owners are to blame, or more likely, perhaps both share some responsibility, along with the makers even, who might need to be more clear about the care needed for whistles made from this material. No offense to anyone.


Loren

Hi folks! I was going to leave this to Walt and others on the maker’s side, but wanted to get my two cents in.

The Dymondwood has been a bit of a headache recently. I have an early one that has been through some pretty rough treatment and withstood it through a few years. I have a ‘retread’ that like Avery’s instrument came up suddenly with multiple cracks, and since being repaired it has held itself together happily.

But there have been too many failures, and the upshot is Sweetheart Flute Co went with a new vendor for the laminate material. This laminate is made under much more rigorous conditions, and happily we had no failures during the turning and boring of the most recent whistle batch.

Of course any problems will be resolved! Loren’s skepticism about the Dymondwood material is not unwarranted. But the new material is used in some pretty harsh situations and I’m putting my faith in it.

Amy (Tyg)