drones structure questions

Hi Everybody,

I’m just a beginner in uilleann pipes, and I have some questions about the structure of the drones.

The below part of the drones sometimes have a U-like form, like this:
http://www.unionpipes.co.uk/gallery/original/ssteels09.html
or an H-like form:
http://uilleann.com/bassdroneiv.html
sometimes the combination of the two:
http://www.uilleann.net/images/half1.jpg

The drones sometimes end in a cone (or something like that):
http://www.unionpipes.co.uk/gallery/original/ssteels09.html
or, sometimes, in a cylinder (something like a cylinder):
http://uilleann.com/bassdroneiv.html

What does it mean? Does it make any difference in the sound of the drones? Can somebody tell me something about these pecularities of the drones?

It is a subject of intense debate. Some will swear that one configuration sounds better than another, but there are as many who will swear the opposite. Probably the reeds have more impact than the shape, but there are those who would argue that point, as well.

Like most questions on UPs that depend a lot on personal taste, your question keeps coming up. <A HREF=http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=51072&sid=9e9fd16b689b82be9c2d1830d9d30d9b"> Here is a recent thread on the same topic. Note that there is no real conclusion, i.e. no-one was convinced from their existing opinion.

djm

I guess since the wavelength of the D of the bass drone is well in excess of a meter, I can’t imagine that it really could matter all that much. Largely, it’s a matter of taste.

I like ladder (H) with a puck (cylinder), personally. Or, U with a puck. I’m not into the bell on the bass drone.


Stuart

You’re talking about the fundamental - which isn’t where the interesting stuff takes place. The tonal differences are up in the high harmonics, and the bass drone has (or should have) plenty of 'em. The difference between two different bass drone designs can be pretty striking.

As I said in the other thread about “which design”, if the puck is solid rather than hollow, there’s little acoustic difference between a puck and a ‘trumpet’, so in that case yes it’s mostly visual tastes. Hollow pucks are another matter. Other things that can have a significant tonal effect are the exit diameter (usually should be a little less than the last bore section) and the relative lengths/diameters of the various sections.

As an aside, if the connecting tube on the ‘H’ is smaller than the sides, that’s likely to spell trouble. ideally it should be the same inner diameter, and the outboard parts of the ‘H’ should be blocked off/plugged so that the inside of the ‘H’ is more of a squared-off ‘U’.

Bill

Point taken!

Stuart

Thanks for answers, and beg your pardon for duplicating the topic! I post topics rarely, so it was just a clumsiness.

dds

Is there such a thing as a hollow trumpet (I’ve also heard it called a “tulip”), and if so, does it have any acoustic differences versus the solid one? How would it compare to a hollow puck?

Don’t know if this is what you’re referring to but Nick Whitmer’s bass drone resonators are not the traditional puck shape but are hollow inside:

dds

I’ve had several PMs regarding the photo posted above. Just to clarify that the brass tube on the bass drone does NOT run all the way through the resonator. What you see at the end of the resonator is a brass ferrule, not the end of the brass tube.

Incidently, most instrument makers don’t put metal inside wood as it would make the wood more prone to cracking. The big exception to this being flutes where the tuning slide is frequently wood outside metal - in climates where the temp/humidity vary, this often leads to the wood on the tuning slide cracking.

I’ve heard of perhaps a third option . . . tuning the bass drone resonator.

I had asked hollow versus solid puck. He suggested a third possibility: partially-hollow. Basically, a puck whose resonating chamber has been tuned to enhance the desirable harmonics.

Fascinating, no?

Stuart

The puck on the end of the bass drone ,even a hollow one,is not really a resonator,is it ?
I would have thought ,that to be a resonator it has to resonate,and theres no way that a lump of plastic like a drone puck resonates ,even a hollow one would not have enough volume to make any difference !!
A true resonator is something like a guitar body, which can be witnessed if you have a guitar in the room when your drones are going and when you switch off the drones and for a few seconds can hear your guitar vibrating.
What you would probably want is a puck with some kind of flexible membrane on the back to enhance the vibrations!!

RORY

this will work I think

I,m not saying its that particular set but I know someone had a bit of trouble with a Dave Williams metal bass drone end piece !!

RORY

It’s not the guitar body that vibrates, but the strings. It’s called sympathy vibration.

I’ll stick my neck out here & say that the thing on the end of a bass drone is not resonating any more than the rest of the drone - pipers just call it a resonator. Some of these resonators are hollow, some aren’t.

If the resonator is hollow then it functions as a low pass filter - it brings out the lower harmonics of the note at the expense of the higher. Without a hollow resonator it would sound less “bassy.”

As far as I can tell resonators which are not hollow have an aesthetic function only. Possible exception: if the exit hole in the resonator is at right angles to the tube it is attached to then perhaps its function is to direct the sound “up” or "out’ instead of directly at the player. I’m not sure this makes much difference, tho.

Nick Whitmer

Its is sympathetic vibration that causes the strings to vibrate .But vibrating strings on their own produce practically no volume, its only when the vibrations are passed via the bridge to the resonating guitar body ,that you hear sound !!

RORY

Yeah, chanters don’t exactly chant, either, but we call them that. That part of the drone has just been called the resonator. And regulators don’t regulate anything. The only aptly named parts are bag, bellows, and drones.

:wink:

Stuart

That would presumably be bag because pipers are generally windbags, bellows because we frequently bellow in frustration at the instrument and drones because we’re always droning on about reeds.

But don’t forget the pupilow, whose function is a closely-guarded secret.