Doubts and passions of a rookie whistler

Whistle
1

Hi everybody again, it is quite some time I’ve joined the board and many many things I’ve read here have helped me so much in proceeding through this joyful adventure.

I’m slowly progressing both in the fingering and tonguing, little behind on the breathing I must say, but playing the instrument more and more by the day.
All in all I’m so happy I have started to play the whistle and even a little sorry I hadn’t before.

On top of everything I also made my first whistle just yesterday (thanks to the wonderful tutorial from Guido Gonzato) and it was like crossbreeding two passions.
My first attempt is quite satisfactory because although I have been a bit sloppy in my eagerness to finish it and try it, it sounds quite alright for what I can say (and my tuner software gives me accurate enough results).
The best part is that in the making of the whistle I had so many ideas on how to customize both the making process and a few parts, but more on that when I venture into it.

Now, with this new thing of making my own whistles (oh, by the way, what keys would you suggest to go for next, given I made a D and I have a Walton’s D to begin with?) my interest for this wonderful world is more than doubled, still, my playing is getting a bit “pointless”.
I keep trying tunes after tunes, playing them at my best but soon I become disenchanted with them.

I think this stems from my lack of a general musical training. I felt from the start I wasn’t going to like the “learn by playing tunes” approach and so far all the online courses I’ve found follow this approach to a greater or lesser extent. I feel the need to learn music instead and play the music with my whistle(s) with much more awareness of what I’m doing. I don’t know if I make much sense.

Do you think I should go for music lessons? I mean: would you generally recommend it over learning by tunes (in particular for the whistle)?

I know it is difficult to say it having not listened to me playing.
By the way, if I wanted to record myself playing for you to give me an opinion on my progress flaws etc., would that be possible?
I have not seen here a specific thread about members providing their samples for learning purposes. I’ve seen that sometimes someone proposes something to the community but generally they are advanced players (I would be doing scales and stuff like that instead) and there’s no particular method to it that I could tell.
Then, there is the Clips and Snips forum which I’m not even sure I understood how it works but from what I could guess it also looks like something aimed at advanced players.

Is there here a custom of adding samples to newbie topic or something similar? In case there is, do you offer storage or suggest a specific host that works well for everybody (in the fashion of imageshack or similar for images)?

Well, I guess I can stop my newbie cry for now, I hope you can be of help with my doubts and at the same time not be bothered by them.

Bye

2

I’ve been only playing the whistle for a little over a month now. Like you, I’ve really become passionate about the whistle and although I haven’t made one yet I have Guido’s and another set of instructions in a whistle notebook I created. Unlike you, I come from playing music for forty years. I play guitar, plectrum banjo and bass in a band, and started learning the flute back in February.

I’m only formally trained on a plectrum banjo and that does not include sight reading music. Over the years I learned where the notes were on a treble clef music staff but the guitar and banjo always alluded me from learning because I learned guitar by ear and different strings at different frets have the same note, so I just found it confusing. On the other hand I play with a piano player who can only play when she reads the music. I prefer playing by ear.

Learning music is more than reading notes and having some understanding can be beneficial. With the banjo I learned the circle of fifths and can play many keys. Stringed instruments are truly chromatic and understanding sharps and flats made it easier for me to play the diatonic whistle. I’ve been teaching myself how to play the flute and whistle and this time I’ve been learning how to sight read. The Boehm flute is chromatic but surprisingly the fingering is similar to a D whistle so with the exception of the F position (F on the flute and F# on the whistle) I had to adjust to the C Natural on the whistle to play songs in G. Understanding music can really help you. I got the Generation Brass Set from Jerry Freeman and if I need to play in certain keys I can transpose the sheet music to D or G and play those fingerings on a particular whistle depending on the key. I don’t have to learn how to sight read for each whistle.

When I was starting to learn how to play the banjo (2004) I made a website where I could share my progress. I recorded songs that showed others how far I’ve come along. I’ve been told by many that this website helped encourage them to play, unfortunately I took it down a while ago. Perhaps you can start a thread with recordings showing your progress. My teacher and I would go to a banjo festival and he would have me up on stage playing in front of banjo players who played for decades. It was very intimidating but I was given more encouragement because they were all at that point at one time. So if you have the means to record yourself, do it.

Right now I’m using Bill Och’s “The Clarke Tin Whistle” and I’m going to go to Blayne Chastain’s online lessons. I’m working on playing some less traditional songs on the whistle with a folk singer who plays locally where I live. Perhaps the best thing I can say is to play with others no matter the style of music or the other instruments.

Don’t be discouraged. You won’t regret the results.

3

As far as which whistle to make next, I’d go for C or E. Just expand out one step at a time.

Regarding learning – the tried and true method of learning musical instruments is to take lessons. You can learn on your own after a fashion, and whistle is one of the less steep learning curve instruments, but you’ll make much faster progress if you have lessons.

If you’ve never played any instrument, then rhythm will probably be a challenge for you. It was for me. Through relentless work with a metronome under two great music teachers I have greatly improved my rhythmic abilities. I’m still not the best, but I’ve gotten pretty decent overall.

Whether you learn from a live teacher or an instructional recording, you’re going to learn to play music by learning to play tunes. That’s how it’s done. Pretty much doesn’t matter what instrument you’re playing, you learn to play by learning tunes. You might get some exercises to play too – more on some instruments than others.

I’m not certain what you mean by the following: “I feel the need to learn music instead…” If you mean learning to read music, then I agree it’s a good thing. It’s another tool in your shed, so if you want to then go ahead. If you ever took a class in touch typing, you can use the same approach to learn to read music. Getting the pitches mapped to your fingers is pretty easy. Getting the rhythms is more difficult, but it helps if you have a recording to go along with the dots.

I’m sure someone will jump on this and say that reading music isn’t a strong component of the Irish tradition, but it is part of other traditions and I don’t know what kind of music(s) you’re interested in.

4

I assume you’re interested in Irish Tradional Music?

You might benefit from face to face lessons with a master whistler.
Skype lesson would also be good.
Both options are expensive, but may well be extremely valuable.

Summer is coming up and that means Irish Music get togethers.
One example from the Sepecial Events board;
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/augusta-irish-celtic-week-2012/79760/1
Many of these feature workshops with FAMOUS names.
Again, not cheap but imagine learning with Joanie Madden, or Mary Bergin!

I’ve really enjoyed the low cost ($15 per month) on line subsrciption tutorial
from Blayne Chastian.
http://www.blaynechastain.com/i-teach/

I can also recomend Bill Ochs book for learning the notes;
http://www.pennywhistle.com/clarkepage.html

Or maybe what will work is getting a stack of CDs by the Great Whistlers
and learning by ear.

How you learn best, and what approach(s) is going yo be best for you is something
you’ll have to discover for yourself. What keeps you motivated and moving foward?
So many options…
Best of luck on the journey!

5

I have played whistles from low to high, for a very long time. While I make my living at music and studio work, I had never had a whistle lesson, per se. Our band played a concert, last Christmas season. Excellent venue, SRO. On the bill with us was a harp player, who is also a superb whistle player and teacher, having trained one of this year’s All Ireland competition winners, in his age category. She enjoyed our performance, as we did hers. After the shows, we talked for awhile, and the subject of traditional Irish work came up. She made the comment that I ‘fake it better than most.’ Heh. Heh. Ouch.

Even though the lessons are expensive, and I must drive a distance of 100 miles for said lessons, I began taking lessons from her. Yes, it is difficult unlearning incorrect ornamentation, breathing habits, rhythmic feel, phrasing, etc. - while at the same time learning the correct way of accomplishing same - while at the same time giving concerts with the band, Overall, I find the experience very satisfying and exhilarating. I have had a few times on stage where my fingers have frozen, between the old faked methodolgy, and what I am learning. It is amusing when it happens, and it is happening less and less.

I listened to discs of iTrad music for years, and as my teacher said - with the help of books - learned to fake things pretty well. In the end, the opportunity of sitting across from an expert, who can show me what, how, when, where, and why to add ornamentation - and to correct me when something in the music is lost because of the ornaments -is invaluable. I am learning so much, and am enjoying all of this, a whole lot.

Best.
Byll

6

@ghicken
Thanks for your input.

Among all the things you said, I can say that a website (blog or whatever) for that purpose would be the umpteenth thing to take care of and, if anything, I have to cut a few things off, not add them, especially now that the tin whistle is eating (said in the most positive way possible) tons of time.
I will not rule the possibility out though because I find the idea brilliant, but I think for now I’ll just stick to the easier one of opening a thread with my progresses.

Oh and I’m not discouraged at all, if that’s what you thought when I said I was disenchanted. I just meant that practicing a tune over and over and memorizing it just through practice makes me feel like I’m cutting corners and missing out on something important which is a broader understanding of notes, keys, notations and general music playing knowledge.

I am excited about playing the whistle, I even unmuffle it now during the day (I used to silence it not to bother the neighbors) and play it full throttle. I simply don’t want to chose wrongly in the learning process.
If the learning by learning tunes is, as highland-piper said, the most common method, regardless of which instrument or teacher, I’ll be fine with it.

Roger that!

Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean by this.
You referred to the metronome so I guess you refer to the ability to pick and/or maintain a given tempo throughout a session.
If that’s what you mean I have to say I feel quite alright with it. You know when you enter a tunnel and lose radio signal but you still keep singing the song? I am always on the beat when I get the signal back. Is that what you meant?

Indeed it is vague in my head too.

When I was in middle school (about 10 to 13) I received my first and only musical training. Music was a school subject, but its importance was far lower than other subjects. This means it was one of those subjects you pass for just showing up.
My memories about the musical hour (yes, one hour per week) are faint at most and with much regret I mostly remember my childish resistance at putting an effort in order to learn something. Oh so many things I regret as a child!

In fact, very little overall musical knowledge remained after middle school and even though in my life I often wandered in or along musically related environments, I never stepped up and tried to fill the void of not knowing music in a educated way. Since my teenage years I’ve always said I wanted to learn the clarinet but words never became actions and year after year I just sat on my ass just listening to music, but never trying to play it.

Now I am finally venturing into playing an instrument and regardless of what this instrument is and what kind music it is mostly associated with (more on that later), I want to become a musically educated person in the same way one would want to learn another language properly and with knowledge of all the rules, grammar, verbs and pronunciation, and not just be able to communicate at a basic or even profound level.

I don’t want to be able to write and read notes in order to learn to play the whistle, I want to learn to write and read and understand notes and keys and fifths and chromatic/diatonic and transpositions and all stuff music through and along the whistle learning process.

I am not in a hurry, but if in -say- five years I can play, even magisterially, dozens and dozens of tunes but I end up knowing little or nothing about music at large, it’ll be, well, half disappointing.

I hope this adds some sense to the whole of it.

Short answer is yes, thorough answer is yes but not because I have started to play the whistle and neither the other way around.

I have started to play the whistle because I had one (it was a gift from my sister, think it spent more than a year in my drawer before I started blowing into it). My knowledge of Irish Music is poor and names like Chieftains or Mary Bergin have still a “wet paint” sign on my brain walls.
Do I like Irish Music? Hell yes I do!
Would I play the whistle if I thought was like rap (sorry for rap lovers but truly, I like most genres but rap isn’t one of them)?
Of course I would because the two things are completely unrelated to me.

Luckily the two things come happily together and I couldn’t ask for more.

So yes I am interested in Irish Music but I still know squat about it.

Duly noted, also ghicken mentioned it, I will definitively look it up.

My motivation is learning, for the fun of it.
In the last year or so I have zealously started to cross things off my list of things I must do in my life and I’m glad that learning to play an instrument is finally one of them.

Thanks!

@Byll
Taking lessons is definitively something that I’ll have to do.
I doubt though that I’ll find a specific whistle teacher in my vicinities so I guess that as soon as I have more time I’ll start searching for the next best thing (probably some other woodwind instrument teacher). In the meanwhile I’ll see books and online lessons although I’m not too fond of the impersonal approach for this thing.
We’ll see.

Thanks everybody for your support.

7

Honestly, I’m not sure what you mean by this.
You referred to the metronome so I guess you refer to the ability to pick and/or maintain a given tempo throughout a session.
If that’s what you mean I have to say I feel quite alright with it. You know when you enter a tunnel and lose radio signal but you still keep singing the song? I am always on the beat when I get the signal back. Is that what you meant?

That’s a good sign.

There are plenty of metronome apps on the internet. Find one and set it to the tempo of a tune you know how to play well. If it’s a reel, then maybe 60 beats per minute. See if you can play along with the metronome. If you don’t have any trouble with that, then you are one of the fortunate ones! Most people have a tendency, especially when starting, to play the easy parts faster and to slow down for the hard parts. No one realizes they are doing this until an external rhythm source is imposed on them.

I always memorize a new tune first, and then turn on the metronome and see how well I can play along with it. After I can do that, then I turn the metronome off. They can be very powerful tools when used correctly. My wife, in addition to being a music teacher, is a professional violinist and I am very fortunate to be able to learn by her example, and also to seek her advice; even though she’s not an expert at Irish music (neither am I, btw), basic musical concepts are universal.

Music theory really isn’t very hard. I suggest going to a public library and finding a book on the topic. A small book, not a big one. Then read through it, and you’ll probably find everything you need to know for Irish music in the first few chapters. If you find it interesting, then keep going!

8

I’m not a musician, but sometimes I hang around with musicians. One thing the trained people have that I don’t is ear training: present them with a harmonic interval and they’ll just know what it is. Great for on-the spot harmonizing, lifting tunes, etc. I’ve been trying to fill the gap myself. E.g. if I’m awake when everybody should be asleep, run a tune in my head, try to imagine the fingering. Try to imagine where it would fit on the whistle (Dmaj/Gmaj/Bmin … even Amaj on a D whistle?) Probably best if I check these insights out on an actual whistle when I get the chance later.

9

I can’t really say I know how to play well a tune, but as far as tempo goes, I already have a metronome application on my system and I can definitely hold my own. Although…

… for the parts I know less I generally stumble, maybe to read once more the notes I don’t remember and then I start again but still, I can pick up tempo fairly easily.

We’ll see how I fare as soon as I post some audio samples. :wink:

10

Different “real” musicians have different abilities. I’ll absolutely never forget the time I asked my wife for some help figuring out what key something was in. She says put in the CD. I say, “well don’t you need your instrument.” – Put in the CD. Withing five seconds, “Sounds like Bb.” When she transcribes a tune she just sits with a recording, a pencil, and paper. When she’s done she checks it on her instrument. Blows me away.

I’m getting pretty good at transcribing highland pipes, but we only have nine notes, and our embellishments are largely standardized.

11

I was wondering: how do you share your samples with the board community?
I mean, other than hosting the files on personal webspaces, is there a service that you guys know of which can host and allows to share on third party sites (like embedding here)?

I know I could do with youtube and the like (although I wouldn’t want), but I was wondering if there some simpler, more direct (i.e. even with no registration) way like an imageshack for audio clips.

How do you guys do?

12

Box.net is free and easy for hosting files, sound and otherwise.


Soundcloud if you want to take it a bit further maybe.

Plenty of others too.

13

I’d like to suggest an A whistle. It’s a nice sounding pitch, can be used to play tunes in D, and it will get you halfway down to playing low D.

14

I’ll give it a shot, lately it seems that I’ve got the WhOC (Whistle Obsessive Crafting Disorder) instead!

@ Mr.Gumby
Thanks for your suggestions, I’ll see to finally produce something, it is about time. :wink: