I have been a bit absent lately with work, I have been listening lately to some Baroque flute playing, on various flutes some wood some plastic, and am really likeing the sound particularly the flutes pitched at A415, I know this would be no good for playing in any kind of session, but I really only play for my own pleasure and with a few friends, so does anyone out there play a one keyed baroque flute and does it only really work with music of that period ( Bach/Teleman etc ). any experiences you guys have would be a big help.
I play the traverso a good amount of the time now. I play some Handel and quite a bit of Telemann, but also O’Carolan and Playford tunes. I stay away from playing ITM for two reasons. Mostly it’s because the traverso simply doesn’t have the power that a good Irish flute does. There are those who can get great power and a good dirty sound from them (Patrick Olwell comes immediately to mind), but that’s not what they’re designed for. The second is that I kind of want to keep the very different types of music each for a particular kind of instrument. That is, I don’t want to have to develop two different embouchures and two different approaches to music for one instrument.
That said, there’s no reason you can’t play Drowsy Maggie on the traverso, and no reason you can’t play Taffelmusik on an Irish flute.
And the Aulos Stanesby has a good reputation. I haven’t played it (nor any Stanesby copy), but I do have an Aulos Matte-black Grenser copy at A440, and it’s really an excellent instrument, and I do have two other Grensers to compare it to. I’d say go for it.
I’m actually moving in the opposite direction…having been a serious early woodwind player (traverso, recorders, baroque bassoon) and harpsichordist for over 30 years (yikes!), my attention has turned to ITM and 19thC flutes. I still have nine flutes covering the repertoire from late 17th to early 19thC and pitch levels of 392-440. One is an 18thC antique.
I own both of the Aulos flutes in question. IMHO, the Stanesby, Jr. is much the more serious instrument and, as you are aware, it is pitched at a-415. It is very “baroque” and so has a small circular embouchure which will take some practice. I understand that it is very closely based on the ivory original owned and played by Masahiro Arita. I think that the Stanesby is the ticket for anyone really interested in baroque music.
The Grenser model is, also as I understand it, not a very direct representation of anything made by the Grenser family, but in real terms it most closely approximates a classical era flute (which actually describes a very wide range of designs.) It would be a bit easier to play at first (bigger, more oval embouchure) but I am not a fan of 18thC flutes at a-440 pitch. In fact, the longer I have played, the more I like a-392 as a “baroque” pitch and I find that good flutes at that pitch play more easily in tune and with a considerably better third octave. Both of my harpsichords are strung to be tuned at 392 and then shift-transposed upward if required.
As a first purchase, for the money, you cannot go wrong with either. Obviously, I would recommend the Stanesby.
In answer to your other question: yes, they are fairly specialized instruments and don’t work well for ITM for at least two reasons. Overall volume is probably the most obvious, but also they are not diatonically tuned in D major in the same way as later keyed flutes (and their un-keyed progeny.) To play with proper fingerings (for pitch and a relatively even scale) means less facility on a one keyed traverso in the keys related to D major than you get with an “Irish” flute. OTOH, you do actually have a fully chromatic flute (with cross fingerings) at your disposal.
I don’t seriously play baroque traverso - have played the baroque repertory fo my own amusement on my 8-key for donkey’s years, and had occasional goes on baroque style flutes, but no regular access to one until recently. Last year I acquired a couple of quite nice early C19th boxwood 1-key flutes in late Baroque/Classical style that play more-or-less at A=440 with tolerable efficacy of cross fingerings, and one of those I am using for specific things (like some late C18th Welsh material) to (I feel) good effect but I’m not doing the groundwork to become a proper traverso player! At about the same time I also bought one of the Aulos A=415 imitation ivory Stanesby copies, out of curiosity/because it was available. It is indeed a very nice flute, though as has already been said, the circular embouchure is very small and it would take a lot of (very worthwhile!) work to develop a suitable and effective embouchure - it needs a smaller lip-aperture even than simple system piccolo requires, else it just sounds fluffy. If one developed one’s technique, it would certainly be possible to play ITM on it but not in a modern ITM style or in company! Things like O’Carolan tunes could be interesting though. These flutes are regarded in music school circles as decent beginners’ period instrument tools before moving on to a proper wooden replica, and will do a good job at that level on the period repertory.
I have, with some regret, decided I’m not going to do the necessary work to learn to play it properly at present - I’m more likely to develop my fluency at the fingering system on the later boxwood flute I have a practical use for - plus I simply am not in a context of having anybody to play with at A=415, much as I’d like to! Anyway, it will always be possible to get another one. So, if anyone is looking for one of these, whilst I’m not specifically putting it on the market to get rid of it, it is lying (sadly) unused and I’m open to sensible offers. Based on a quick Google trawl they currently retail new for about £360 - I’m not looking for that, obviously, for a second hand one, but these don’t “go off”! PM me if interested, please.
My background is with early flutes, and I’m happy to use them for ITM, but not necessarily for the right reasons.
What I like about the wooden flute is the gentle, haunting tone it can produce making the flute so well suited to slow airs. For this reason I prefer flutes in lower pitches than the modern A=440 norm. Flutes at 415, or better yet 400-405, have an even more captivating tone to them. I also like the close, personal experience I get from the gentler tone of the baroque flute with its small embouchure and tone holes. Given my preference, I would play my baroque flute for most things.
But I don’t get my way much of the time. Most people I know play at A=440, so I have a H. Grenser early classical flute with 430/440 bodies. It is a slightly brighter flute than my baroque model. It’s also nimbler which makes it well suited to livelier dance music. Sadly, I don’t know anyone with a fortepiano at 430 that I can play with, but do get to use that pitch for practising, and I save the shriller 440 joint for when I actually have to match other instruments.
I am actually content to play this flute whenever I take part in sessions or workshops. That, though, is because I’m quite novice with ITM and playing by ear. The Grenser allows me to play under everyone else so my myriad mistakes don’t shine through nearly as much as they would otherwise! With a tight enough embouchure the flute actually can make its presence known too. It was, after all, capable of being played over the smallish orchestra of Mozart’s day.
That said, I do have a flute on order from Patrick Olwell so that I can properly fit into an Irish session. I figure that if I keep hiding in the shadows I won’t have much need for fixing all those mistakes, and where’s the incentive then? Despite the high pitch (440) and larger tone holes (I chose the med. model because I couldn’t even imagine the largest holes), Patrick has agreed to make the flute for me with an E-flat key so that I can at least pretend that I’m still playing my baroque flute!
The Grenser, BTW, is made by Fridtjof Aurin in Germany and highly recommended if you’re looking for that sort of a thing.
I play both Irish flute and baroque flute - Irish = Grinter, baroque = Simon Polak. I also own the white Aulos Stanesby Jr., which basically plays like a proper baroque flute, not just a toy (but not as nice as my Polak!). Go for it, if it’s where your budget is at and you’re still looking for an A=415 flute.
Basically, I’d echo what Herb and Chas said. I’ve tried playing Irish on baroque, and baroque on Irish. It’s doable, and can even sound nice, but personally I really feel that they are two quite different beasts, each requiring an individual approach and producing very different results. Playing Irish on my baroque flute doesn’t really give me the experience that I’m properly experiencing what Irish flute playing is all about, and certainly ditto for the other way around.
the information was very helpfull, I have been listening to a few clips of off youtube of various baroque flutes, most are copies of original flutes of the period and in A415, is the sound produced on a baroque flute A415 or A440 very similar in tone, what I am trying to say, is the sound of a flute pitched at A415 baroque copy, going to be as distinctive as a baroque copy flute pitched in A440, is it the design of the flute, small holes and small embouchure and bore that creates that unmistakable tone.
I lucked into an Edward Baack on e-bay, it is a one-key. I have a Hamilton keyless. Both flutes sound good playing Irish music, but the Baack would not be good in a session. Unless everyone played very softly and that’s not what we usually want, except for airs. The Baack sound good playing airs. It certainly sounds good playing Baroque music.
Unfortunately the only answer I can come up with is “yes and no.” The same flute with A415 and A440 midsections (corps de rechange) would probably be identifiable as the same flute, so in that way, yes, they are very similar in tone. On the other hand, the same piece played in the same style on the same flute will sound different at A440 as opposed to A415. It’s kind of the same as playing a jig on a D flute then playing it on the same flute with an Eflat body. To my ears it sounds natural in D, but there’s a certain liveliness to the Eflat flute. In the same vein, the A415 flute has a warmth and intimacy to its sound, while A440 has a brightness and an almost assertive sound now that I’m used to playing at A415.
I have two high-end Baroque flutes with A415 and A440 midsections, and I hardly touch the 440 bodies. To me 415 just sounds natural, I love the warmth of it, and possibly I associate modern pitch with ITM.
