Does anyone else feel this way?

So I was perusing the forum this morning and came upon a thread that Jem started about a German flute. Jim Stone posted a link to Jem playing a very difficult piece on another flute. I thought it was really amazing. Not perfect, but certainly better than I, and I bet 90% of the others on this list could do. He didn’t say “look at me, I the best flute player in the world”. He was demonstrating a flute he had in his position so that we all might learn a little more about our toys. I for one appreciate what he has done in this regard. It is great to be able to listen to different flutes being played by the same player.

Then some nimrod ( on you tube not here) had the gal to negatively and derogatorily comment on his playing. I feel these comments are uncalled for and out right mean.

I am not new to ITM, but have only been playing the flute for 5 months. I feel I have made nice progress and last night I played it for the first time at a session. It wasn’t perfect, but I kept the rhythm and while slower than my normal speed others joined in. I am sure sometimes I breathed in the wrong place and I missed a few notes, but the others commented with encouragement. I left feeling good about my progress and desire to practice more and continue improving.

I would never post a recording of my playing, because of the lashing that I have seen of some really talented people.

When did music become a pissing contest? I work at least 55 hours a week, I have a family that I spend time with and I play music for the absolute enjoyment and relaxation it gives me. For me going to sessions is a time to be with friends and down a few and have fun.

I think we should all on this Mother’s Day reflect on what our mothers taught some of us, and should have taught the rest. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Give constructive criticism in a positive way to help someone. Don’t be derogatory and outright nasty. It just makes you look bad.

Jeff (Mandoboy)

Ever been to Doolin, Jeff? I met a mandolin-playing Jeff there, once. Just wondering. Cheers,

Rob

p.s. Might even have a photo somewhere…

No, I wish.

We were going to come to Ireland last year, but didn’t make it. Might have to wait until I retire.

You can see a bit about me here www.vdbs.com/~grudin/mandobirth/index.html

Just a fun little bit. The page was done about 10 years ago and none of this stuff has been updated since. Old technology web page that worked well back then but not so well now. Hmm… why do I feel like I have to justify everything even a little joke of a web page?

Jeff

Hey, I’m a low-tech guy. I thought it was funny!

Be prepared for some cantankerous behaviour here, meanwhile. Don’t let it turn you off, though - get stuck in! That sense of humour of yours will serve you in good stead on the C&F. All the best,

Rob

lol

I saw that YouTube clip of Jem, and he did make a point of saying that, for reasons, the flute was unfamiliar to him, so, fair play to Jem.

However, apparently some oaf then decided to mouth off about it, on YouTube.

Well,

While I can wholeheartedly agree with you, in that there is a joy to music, and to flute playing in particular, it also seems that whenever two flute players could be in each other’s company a contest might occur, if only informally.

Yes, that’s just the nature of the beast.

:smiley:

Perhaps it happens in your experience.
But it is not the nature of flute playing.
It’s just musician’s EGOs.
A desire for contests has nothing to do with playing music together.
It opposes playing together.
When you truly play music EGO is absent.

cheers,
~Hans

Sometimes you have to consider the source. I took a look at the profile of the guy who made the derogatory comment. His videos were all of skateboarders going down steps and rails etc. and his user name is “sk8bitchng”. I’m not saying that no skateboarders play the flute. I’m just weighing out the odds.

Kirk

I often get opportunities to say, “What (insert name) said speaks more about (insert same name) than the person they were speaking about.” I wish I got less opporunities to say that. And I live in West Virginia where, overall, people have manners.

Poor ska8bitch or whatever his name is.

The world is full of A-Holes.

Its just a fact.

You can’t let them get in the way of you living and enjoying life.


You’ll most likely never be as good as you think someone else is and never better than you want to be.

Don’t let that get in the way as you will never get better without playing and playing is the point of it all.

That is where the joy hides.

Play on!

Don’t feed the trolls.

As I was saying, there are those who play for the love of it. Yet, it’s not uncommon for two or more players to assess each other.

I’ve seen it happen, time and again.

I have been pondering all day whether or not it would be wise or indeed appropriate to engage in this thread… Well, yur I be. Why I feel I should will become apparent.

First, my warmest thanks for the kind words and supportive attitudes offered here. I do appreciate them.

I have said previously here on C&F and elsewhere that IMO anyone who publishes their endeavours (in any form, not just on the Web) offers themselves up to the possibility, indeed inevitability, of assessment and criticism - the whole gamut from generous appreciation through constructive criticism to fly negativity and carping, even overtly nasty baiting. If one cannot understand and deal with that, one should remain private. Accordingly, I have not chosen (as is possible on YouTube) to restrict the posting of comments or ratings and I have thus far only removed one comment - one made on a video I posted that is not of me and which I felt was inappropriate. I’m not saying I’ll never decide to delete something offensive, just that I usually prefer either to ignore gratuitous unpleasantness and treat it with the contempt it deserves - allowing it to redound upon its source as mutepoint, Hans and others point out - or sometimes to try to make a constructive response and make something better and more useful out of the situation.

Regarding my RC&Co Badinerie clip, and to the meat of the matter: “sk8bitchng” is a young Bosnian called Sebastijan Bereta who, subsequent to our exchange on YouTube friend-requested me on Facebook where I have had some friendly correspondence with him. From what I can make out he is a quite advanced classical Bohm flute student at a specialist music school or college. I am well aware that, especially to a mainstream, probably very hard-practising classical student, my amateur playing is relatively shambolic, even allowing for technical problems on an unfamiliar toot. OK, there are plenty of worse hacks at the Badinerie on YouTube even than mine, but that doesn’t make mine “good”. At face value his comment was abrupt and rude, but not entirely unjustifiable!

However, these things are a question of perspective as well as manners! With a language barrier - (Sebastijan appears to have reasonable but not great written English…) mis-communication is easy - inaccurate original expression and poor comprehension by readers. Moreover, I realised from the first (I perused his profile before responding) that, as a skater-type, “yoof culture” callow youngster, there was a possibility (especially suggested by his use of the word “dude”) that he was actually using through cultural adoption the inverted usages common in modern Anglo-American urban youth-speak - rap and similar contexts - to imply a compliment; “bad” meaning “good”. On balance I don’t think he did mean that, but it was a possibility. Hence, partly, my temperate response.

(BTW, Jeff, the Badinerie really isn’t a difficult piece, let alone “very”. Difficult to play really well, sure, like anything… but to hack through it is probably easier on traverso or 8-key than on Bohm flute because it is in home key, falls quite well under the fingers and has no huge technical challenges - there are plenty of ITM tunes that are harder! Get the dots and have a go! It is a piece that fame and exposure have given an exalted position to in the view of the non-player - it is one of the great flute showpieces because it is a marvellous piece of music, but it isn’t really technically challenging or virtuosic like many other famous pieces - even played silly fast as too often happens! The moderately paced and extended first movement of Bach’s B Minor Suite which the Badinerie concludes is much harder!)

I hope that sheds some useful light on the situation.

Finally, on a related but slightly different tack, someone has given the new German Flute clip a 1-star “poor” rating without bothering to offer any explanation. The person who has left a seemingly cryptic comment (possible language barrier again!) is a subscriber to my channel, so I doubt he gave the 1-star. (Ahhh, assumptions - again! - When I first read that comment/question I took it as being fly and associated with the 1-star, but fortunately I reflected on it and checked up on the poster before reacting!!!). Of course I don’t object to getting low ratings in line with my view of the whole process (“mind” is another matter! :stuck_out_tongue: ), but I don’t feel it is fair or proportionate to my intent in making and posting the clip. I do think (as I’ve said on my YouTube channel) that it is lazy and ill-mannered simply to give a bad rating without offering an explanation or thought-out critique of some kind. Acceptance that people are at liberty to do so doesn’t make it acceptable behaviour, even in these high speed, short attention span, internet surfing days.

Thanks again, folks.

I’d agree with Jem’s “anyone who publishes …” comment, except that I’d go much further: Jem posted something on YouTube - who cares what people say there? I just wouldn’t take any of that stuff seriously. If I posted something on YouTube, I just wouldn’t take any notice of what people left as comments. If, OTOH, I directed folks here to something I’d posted, I would take serious notice of any comments made.

Unfortunately, flute-playing (and being a musician, in general) doesn’t really tell you much about the person who does it. There are skilled flutists who are wonderful, generous people, and there are also skilled flutists whose personality would be better suited on a dyspeptic crocodile than on something that pretends to be human.

If you are lucky, you will encounter more of the former than of the latter; however, unless you are very lucky, fate will lead you to encounter both.

Some people will want to help you and give you good advice. Some people will think it’s funny to try to shoot you down or even sabotage you. I have encountered plenty of both.

If you are really interested in learning to play well, you should seek out a teacher that you respect and feel that you can work with. Listen to that teacher and follow his advice. Advice from other quarters should often be taken with a large amount of skepticism, if not ignored completely. What may have been meant as helpful criticism, you should share with your teacher and get his opinion. Any other sort of criticism should be roundly ignored.

–James

I don’t post clips, and a couple of years ago I got into a spat with another C&F member, who said that if I didn’t post clips then I could be in no position to comment about flute playing. Yet, I’ll say something else, in that not only do I not post clips, but that I have never listened to any of the clips that have been posted on the C&F clip sticky, not once.

In short, I enjoy being here, but I’m not here to be critical of anyone’s playing, and so I only know the people here on the basis of what they write.

It’s nice to make, and have, friends.

Thanks, Dale!

Edit: a one word edit occurred, here.

The internet is full of morons, just learn to ignore them.

Qui audet adipiscitur! :smiley:
Posting clips or recordings on the net is not just for the pro’s or semi-pro’s, it can be very useful even for a complete beginner. If one dares :wink:

Here is a perfect example of a new piper who just received his first set, felt despair and needed some advice or input:

Good on you Age, for daring to share your first attempt with the rest of the world! :thumbsup:

And just a few days later the maker in questions posts a personal reply.
That is customer service at it’s best!

Part I:

Part II:

Conclusion: Use the possibilities of the www for your own benefit or enjoyment and ignore the morons.

/M

Cork,

I am a little saddened by your response. I have a much different view of the posting clips sticky… I think I have listened to every single one of the posts, and in fact have kept a library of all the players and thir posts. I find it extremely useful listening to everyone’s clips, from beginner to players with recordings. There is something to be gained from all of them. I have certainly posted my fair share, perhaps even overdone it a bit. I know it’s not always the best performance, but that’s part of the learning curve- it is what it is at the moment it was recorded. I haven’t had the time nor the energy to reply to all. Sometimes I choose to reply via PM, but when I do reply it is with the utmost respect toward a player’s effort. I also see posting as a community building endeavor, and applaud all who have put themselves out there for the masses to consider. I do hope you change your mind and post something, or at the very least, give a listen.
Respectfully,
Arbo

Yeah, that puzzles me too. I can see not wanting to post clips, for any of a number of reasons. But I really enjoy listening to the clips people post. In fact, I think that’s one of the great benefits of sites like this. It can be instructional, often inspires me, and helps me gauge my own progress. Even beginner clips have potential to teach things. Can you elaborate?

Arbo,

Although I’m a relative newcomer to ITM, of these past dozen years or so, I came to C&F with decades of flute playing experience behind me. And, given that there could be so many other places to listen to ITM, I elected to join C&F simply to meet others with a common interest, and that by not listening to any of their clips, I could enjoy their company without any musical prejudice, whatsoever.

:slight_smile:

Forgive me for sounding so simplistic:

Human behavior seems to stay on the saner side when people have to actually face another human being. I tend to watch my own behavior in my town because I’m bound to run into someone when I’m out. I don’t flip people off when I am driving since it could very well be my neighbor. Internet forums are the ultimate in unaccountability. People can say whatever they want, they can change usernames if they want. I think it’s just a form of cowardice. It happens here too, and it seems to be worse with pipers! It’s comically surly at times. Keep up the playing, sounds like you’re doing well. There’s a lot of cool people at sessions to meet too.