Difficult decision -- need help

Whistle
1

Some of you may have seen my post a few days ago about receiving a new Burke composite A. I am now facing a difficult decision regarding the whistle. I can’t say it’s like being between a rock and a hard place – I guess it’s more like being between a hunk of chocolate and a dish of ice cream . . .

Over a year ago, my husband ordered a Sindt A and Bb for me as a gift. A month or so ago, I gave up on the Sindts and decided to order something I could get sooner. My husband emailed John Sindt to cancel the order, and I ordered a pair of Burke composites. The A arrived Wednesday afternoon; the Bb will take a few more weeks. So far, no problems.

Then yesterday afternoon, a package from Sindt whistles appeared in my mailbox, containing the Sindt A and Bb! Apparently the order cancellation wasn’t received. Now I have in my home a Burke composite A, a Sindt A, and a Sindt Bb. Unfortunately, neither my whistle use (especially for an A) nor my income justifies owning two expensive A whistles at this point in my life, so I need to choose which one to keep and which to return.

They are both really nice whistles, very different from each other. There are some things I prefer about the Burke, and some I prefer about the Sindt. Just from a mechanical standpoint, I find the Sindt easier to play: the narrower diameter tube is easier for me to hold, and the stretch between the fingers of the right hand is slightly, though noticeably, smaller, so it’s easier to make the transition from the D whistle to the A. I suspect that is something I’d get used to and it may become a non-issue on the Burke with practice. The Sindt easily plays the third octave A (i.e., two octaves above the bell note) and two notes above it in the third octave. I can get the third octave A on the Burke but it needs a big push of air, and I’d have to work hard to get notes above that.

But of course, you’re all going to tell me I need to choose based on the SOUND, of course. The sounds are very different. The Burke composite has a woody, flutey, breathier tone. (One friend who heard it Thursday night said it sounded like a r******r :astonished: – but don’t hold that against it!) The Sindt has a more traditional whistle-y sound. I play a tune on one and think “oh yes, definitely this one” and then play a different tune and think I like the other one better. At this point, I think I prefer the flutey, breathy tone of the Burke for airs and slow tunes, but the Sindt for faster tunes. I guess I need to decide what I’m more likely to play on the A . . .

So please, send suggestions, questions I should consider, etc. Tell me what to do, not that I’ll do it – I may realize that what I really want is the opposite. :stuck_out_tongue: (And don’t tell me to just keep both; as I said above, neither my whistle use nor my income currently justifies that.)

One thing I want to do is get a better player than me to play both so I can hear them both from the other side of the whistle. ErikT? Are you willing? I know you love your Sindt A; you can compare and see if you think mine is as good. Jennie, if you want to try these, you’ll need to get yourself to Fairbanks soon!

IMPORTANT QUESTION: To protect ErikT from the head cold I have that won’t go away, what’s a good way to disinfect a whistle that is safe for both whistle and human? I know warm soapy water doesn’t hurt whistles – is that sufficient?

2

If you don’t need the cash immediately, I’d suggest living with both whistles for a couple of weeks. In that time you’ll get better acquainted with each whistle’s unique qualities and will be able to make a better decision. After that amount of time, Mike or John might not want to take them back for a refund but if you keep them in primo mint condition you can most certainly sell the one you decide not to keep right here on the board for what you paid for it-- with no waiting list for the buyer.

3

I might buy the sindt from you. :slight_smile:

(Even though I shouldn’t.)

4

be happy to buy the b flat sindt.
meir

5

If you would rather have a Sindt D than an A I could help you out.

6

That’s interesting. I had the same experience of cancelling a Sindt order, and the package still arriving several months later. I kept it. Tells you something, I guess.

7

You can check out anytime you like, but you can nver leave.

8

I tend to be very analytical in my thinking and decision making, handy in my line of work. But a decision like yours probably has no real logical answer, the decision is an aesthetic one, i.e. how do you ‘feel’ about these whistles?

When I am in similar circumstances I take an English pound (coin) I have and I decide a priori heads outcome a, tails outcome b. I flip the coin in the air. Now is the critical part. Before the coin lands in my outstretched hand I look inside myself and see which side of the coin I hope will turn up.

Sounds screwy I know. But it is my way of trying to do an end run around my overly critical, analytical, worrisome, logical mind.

my 0.02

9

A truly awesome method of determining things. Nonetheless, I certainly wouldn’t want to be in the position of choosing between two magnificent whistles.

10

I’ve done a very similar thing many times before. I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one! :laughing: I don’t have an English pound coin, but I find an American penny works just fine. I flip it, and if I find myself looking at the result and flipping again saying “ok, best 2 out of 3”, and then “best 3 out of 5” , etc., I know what I already decided. That’s kind of why I asked people to tell me what to do – so I’d realize what I didn’t want to do.

I’m not flipping coins yet. Brewerpaul’s advice to get to know each whistle better is good, so I’ll do that for awhile.

Living in a place where I don’t encounter many high-end whistles (or even low-end ones) to try, having these two for a side-by-side comparison is a rare treat for me. I’m going to enjoy agonizing over this decision, really. :laughing:

Thanks, all!
Sarah

11

Another factor to consider: Is Sindt’s order list very backed up? Would it take longer for someone (or you) to get another Sindt A or Burke A if one were to place a fresh order with the respective makers?

12

Sindt has a long wait, about a year. It definitely looks like if I decide not to keep either Sindt, I can probably sell it myself if I wish. (Or send it back to John Sindt and let him sell it.) Burke has a much shorter wait. My Burke A surprised me by how fast it arrived – I don’t know if that’s because he always keeps some in stock, or if I just got lucky and there was one there or almost finished when I ordered. Because Burke’s far less backlogged, there’s less motivation for someone to buy directly from me than to just order one themselves – I might save them no more than a month’s wait.

Michael Burke allows a 30-day period to decide whether to keep a whistle. I haven’t managed to contact John Sindt yet to know how long he gives to decide, but I assume it’s at least a week, so I have some time to play them both and decide.

Sarah

13

Personally,I keep both the Sindts but why not keep one off both makes.
Best of both worlds.
Phil

14

Without entering the debate about who’s a better whistle player, I think there’s a lot of merit in having someone else play so you can listen. So if Erik’s unavailable, I think you should send them all here to me, and give me a week to get to know them so I can flawlessly play the same tunes on both, then I’ll find an excuse to come up at Thanksgiving. :wink:

I know I love the sounds you make with your high D, and that you seem to prefer a purer sound. Makes me think you may decide to stick with the Burke. Makes me almost change my mind about the sound I prefer whenever I listen to you play. Whistles sound different to the player and to the listener.

Maybe I’ll come up and help! :slight_smile:
Jennie

15

Two things to throw into the pot.

The Sindts will be sturdier and have better longevity than the Composites.
and will hold there value better due to waiting list issues.

The Burke may have a stronger/truer Cnat with 0xxooo.

My advice…keep 'em both. :smiley:

Doc

16

(*since it’s an A whistle, that note is actually a G natural)
This is definitely true. I’m accustomed to playing oxxooo, and it’s way sharp on the Sindt. I haven’t yet figured out what, if any, cross-fingering works for that note on the Sindt.

I’ve played both into a tuner and both are pretty well in tune across both octaves. For both whistles, I have to blow a bit harder than my first instinct to get it perfectly in tune in the second octave. (In general, playing into a tuner would be a good exercise for me to do on a regular basis. I am gradually improving my ear, but it’s still not great.) On the Sindt, there’s a noticeable jump in pressure needed to get the C# (what would be F# on a D whistle) in tune, in both octaves. Note-to-note transitions on the Burke are smoother except the octave A is sharp – it takes a noticable drop in pressure to get the A in tune, and then an increase again to get the B. So, neither is perfect (at least the way I naturally play them), but they’re both good and I think I can learn to adapt to either one.

The more I play them, the more I like them both.

A local friend told me to consult with him before I send either one back, because he’s thinking of getting an A whistle. Maybe I’ll end up selling one to him, and then I can have occasional visitation rights. :slight_smile: That would make it less painful to part with one.

I’m thinking I’ll just keep the Sindt Bb and not even get the Burke Bb after all, so I don’t go through the same turmoil with the Bb’s as with the A’s . . .

17

As someone who owns both the instruments you speak of, for what it’s worth, here are my thoughts on the matter. First of all, if you want to sell the Sindt, I’ll be glad to buy it for the full new price. I’m looking for an A/Bb mouthpiece. But that’s not answering your question… I think you have to keep the whistle that sounds the best to you.

Sound is everything. If you don’t love the sound, soon enough, you’ll grow bored with the whistle and then you won’t play it. What a waste that will be, huh? On the other hand, your evaluation of the technical points about the differences between the two, while perfectly valid, STILL won’t end up being more important that how the whistle sound pleases (or doesn’t please) you! You can always learn to play a whistle; learn how to exert the right kind or breath pressure, finger positions, articulation so that it plays well. Unless, of course, the whistle is really screwed up… and I’m sure that’s not the case.

And then, even when you’ve chosen the whistle that sounds the best to you, it will sound better on some tunes than others. I have a boatload of great instruments and I’m always switching around between them, because one will be perfect on a certain tune, paired with my guitar… while the next one will sound so much better when paired with my cello playing a different tune. Good luck, and let me know if you want to sell your Sindt.

18

Emrys: Do you have a cross-fingering that works for G natural on the Sindt A?

My latest thought is that the LOGICAL thing is to keep the Sindt Bb and the Burke A so I’d have one of each make . . . but I don’t know if I can bear to give up the Sindt A. I might end up keeping it ‘‘just for awhile’’ (really. :blush: well, maybe!) with the thought that I could sell it for what I paid for it anytime I want. If I put it on eBay, it might go for more than I paid, given the long wait to get one. Yeah, that’s it – it’s an investment . . . !

And to think that I managed to evade WHOA for so long. Sigh.

Sarah
Wow! There are two A’s in my name – do you think that’s a sign?? :smiley:

19

Here’s a possibility. What I did was to ask Gary Humphrey to make me an A whistle tube that fits my Bb Sindt mouthpiece. It works well, though I really had to fuss with it to get it to fit (it’s too loose unless you add layers of something–I used nailpolish). You can speak with him directly to get prices, but generally, the price of a tube is considerably less than the price of the whole whislte. You’ll save around $50-60 that way. You can find Gary’s contact info via Google. He’s a great guy and his tubes (and whole whistles) are beautiful and play extremely well in tune.

20

I don’t need to turn the Sindt Bb into an A by adding another tube; I just need to know how to get an in-tune G-natural on the A whistle.

You may have misunderstood my situation. The Sindts aren’t one tube with two heads – they are two complete whistles.