Where in the time line of uilleann pipe development does the narrow bore concert pitch chanter fit in .
I thought it was a recent development but some suggested they are actually pre taylor !!!
RORY
There can’t be any concert D narrow bore chanters pre-Taylor because modern concert pitch hadn’t been invented back then. People like Egan, Coyne, Robert Reid and maybe even the Taylors themselves in the early days, made pipes pitched at A435 (about 20 cents flat of modern pitch) usually in C,B orBb. However I think there is at least one A 435 Reid set in D in a museum somewhere. During the Taylor’s lifetime the Philharmonic pitch became the norm (between A452/A456) especially in America. Meanwhile, conservative musicians and especially the French, clung onto the old “Diapason Normale”, so people started referring to A435 as French Pitch. Meanwhile the British saw an opportunity to take over the world and introduced “New Philharmonic Pitch” at A439 as a compromise. People then started to call Philharmonic Pitch “Old Philharmonic Pitch”. This was during the 1890’s. So those inventive Taylors possibly used all three pitches. Then A439 became A440… Confused? I know I am.
… I need a drink…
Me too… fillerup!
Pat.
Bottom line is both things are true - there are 18th and 19th century Union pipe chanters that play in “about” modern D or Eflat - and also the quest for a narrow bore (i.e. “flat-chanter-like”) chanter pitched in D at modern pitch is a relatively recent development.
But the ‘recent’ efforts have precedent in those old narrow bore chanters. Some folks have referred to them as “sharp chanters” to distinguish them from narrow-bore flat chanters and modern concert pitch chanters
Jimmy O’Brien-Moran has a Robert Reid that’s pitched in about D, though he usually plays that set with an O’Connor and Boyle wide-ish-bore concert pitch chanter made about 1920. Craig Fischer described a Coyne D (well, nearly D ) chanter in the Sean Reid Society Journal v1.
The balderose taylor chanter has elements of narrow-bore-ness about it too.
Bill
Where might I here a narow bore D chanter, either as a sound sample or are there any cd’s where a piper uses a narow bore D?
Are there bore measurements available anywhere?
David
Anybody ever measure Martin Kerrigan’s pipes? Those are supposed to be the set Tom Kerrigan owned, the first Taylors made in America.
o’corragain asked about hearing a sound sample or possibly a CD using narrow bore design. Ray Sloan offers a CD on his web site titled “Pipes, Rods, and Reels”. I think I remember more than one track demonstrating his playing some of his narrow bored chanters. It’s also good music.
“Anasazi Piper”
I don’t remember where I heard this from… possibly a few years ago when I spoke to Geoff Wooff on the phone. Peter Laban indicated in an earlier topic that Geoff’s first narrow bore D’s were made around 1986. Geoff had recorded some piping with his C set, but they needed the music in D… so they electronically altered the tape speed and raised the pitch to D. Geoff said he liked the sound so much that he decided to design a D chanter that had many of the qualities of a narrow bore (flat set)
My question/statement… he was living in Australia at that time, right?
Measurements for the Coyne 373mm chanter (slightly flat of modern D) and the Balderose (also slightly flat of D, and an ‘intermediate’ kind of bore) are available. Balderose has been published on uilleannforum, the Coyne D measurements are in SRS vol. 1.
(disclaimer: I haven’t tried either set of measurements out. I have heard that the fingering of the Coyne D can be a little peculiar.)
My Kenna chanter plays in D as the note was understood in 1812 - near modern C sharp. If you go to the Early Music Show you can buy baroque flutes, oboes etc that are similarly tuned. There are whole orchestras who play in baroque pitch.
So narrowbore D chanters are nothing new - they are where it all started
Ross
If you want to hear a narrow bore D chanter listen to the drones and chanters Vol 2. Ronan Browne playing on a Peter hunter narrow bore chanter, its a 14" 1/2 inch chanter, and its still well up at 443-445hz pitch, were you get old D chanters were flat of 440hz beats me, most of the old flat D chanters were 14" 1/4 - 14" 1/2inches in length, old C# chanters were between 15"inches - 15" 1/2 inches. 
A nice sounding chanter, but not what I call narrow bore D.
, were you get old D chanters were flat of 440hz beats me, most of the old flat D chanters were 14" 1/4 - 14" 1/2inches in length, old C# chanters were between 15"inches - 15" 1/2 inches. >
Ross is right, the “D” of the time (over much of the era we’re talking about, late 18thc/early 19thc) would have been about C# in modern pitch. Presumably this is not what the original poster was asking about, of course.
Bill
I play Pat Stones lefthanded D narrow bore chanter rosewood, boxwood, brass with 4 keys.
Here are some measurements of chanter and reeds
Chanter length = 368mm/14.5"
Chanter top part = length 149.60mm/5.890"
Pat Stones D narrow bore reed
Length = 72.35mm/2.848"
Width = 11.05mm/0.435"
Alan Burton reed which was originally made for Andreas Rogge B chanter but now plays in Pat Stones chanter after a few adjustments.
Length = 75.25mm/2.963"
Width = 11.42mm/0.449"
Fergus Maunsell (that’s me) reed which plays C#
Length = 81.25mm/31.99"
Width = 11.54mm/0.454"
Cheers
Ferg
Just to clarify - I’ve been called an anorak already thanks - Drones and Chanter vol 2 features two wide bore Hunter chanters in the hands of Potts and Browne, no narrow bore at all. The narrow/medium/callitwhatyouwill/throat ~5.10/14 3/8" long concert chanter is the one you can hear on the Donal Lunny live album. It may be edifying to know that the whole front row of this gig were sitting on the edge of their chairs clutching spare chanters, poised to rush up to the stage if the reed collapsed . . . but it made it through. The high B in the slow air caused massed “leaning back in seats and exhaling”.
Peter Hunter has however made a proper narrow bore (ie flat) D chanter since about 1982. This design has been extrapolated from E to B and every point in between, coming out best in C# or C.
Yep
A lot of modern baroque instruments are tuned exactly to A415.5 (A flat). There is a good reason for this - the pitch is a twentieth century invention dating from a time when there weren’t enough affordable replica intruments available - especially harpsichords and fortepianos. It enables modern concert pianos and harpsichords to be used, transposing the music down a semitone. As for real baroque pitch, there were several in the 18th and early 19th century:- around A425 (roughly a 15" D chanter back in those days), A410 (about 15.7" chanter) and also around A400. This is another reason why baroque revivalists have settled on A415.5. It makes life a little easier.
Hello Sam, are you saying that one of Peters Concert chanters plays at 443hz~445, its well above 440hz, because thats what pitch it is playing in on the Drones and the chanter vol.2 in Mr browne hands, I’ve played on both of Peters Concert & narrow bore D chanters both trimmed in ivory & brass,lovely instruments.
all the best.
Tony said…I don’t remember where I heard this from… possibly a few years ago when I spoke to Geoff Wooff on the phone. Peter Laban indicated in an earlier topic that Geoff’s first narrow bore D’s were made around 1986. Geoff had recorded some piping with his C set, but they needed the music in D… so they electronically altered the tape speed and raised the pitch to D. Geoff said he liked the sound so much that he decided to design a D chanter that had many of the qualities of a narrow bore (flat set)…
This sort of makes sense relative to a tape recording that I have of Geoff Wooff talking about the boxwood D set that I recentley sold… He made that set, number 53, in 1984 in Australia and refers to a recording he made of the set on a reel to reel in order to slow it down so he might compare the tonal quality to a flat set…
He suggests that, at the slower speed, the D set could pass for something like an “Egan C set…slightly more robust than his Harrington set…”