D Plus Whistles

A D whistle with an added hole for C below D is not a new idea, but I had not pursued it seriously before now, to add it to the range of what I can offer. The new D Plus whistle has a wider bore, same as the standard C whistle. It plays the same as a D whistle, if the extra hole is not used. But you have a number of extra possibilities: rolls and crans on the bottom D, an extended scale, playing pipe tunes which use the flat seventh below the base note, playing in C major (by half-holing R2 for F nat), using another alternative for C nat, half-holing the R4 hole for C#, and probably more.

I also experimented with an extra top hole, for the left hand thumb, to give an octave D. Apart from that by half-holing this one can play the top second octave notes softer than otherwise possible, so they blend better with the first octave. This technique is used on recorders, and I think it is essential on those instruments, but commonly not employed on whistles. I thought it is a useful trick to add, and on the whistle it is not essential, but an option. I call this the D Plus Two whistle, because it has two extra holes, eight in all.

This is the same number of holes as seen on recorders. Apart from the tone and playing characteristics (and all the different geometries), a recorder with baroque fingering allows for forked fingerings for F natural and F sharp. The D Plus Two whistle does not, F# is played as on a normal D whistle, and F natural must be half-holed. I have been experimenting in developing a forked fingering solution as used on a baroque recorder for the whistle, and I got quite close. But with a cylindrical body I could not quite make the F# low enough, it stayed a bit sharp. Or, alternatively, the G was a bit too flat. Getting G, F# and F tuned just right eluded me so far, even though I have come very close to an acceptable solution.

So I decided for now to stay with the new D+2 whistle model, have a standard F# and no forked F natural, but use half-holing instead for this note. In time I might arrive at a fully forked F# and Fnat whistle, but I guess I need to do something with the bottom bore, in other words: it will get more complicated! Any ideas on that would be most welcome! I think there could be a bridge from whistle world to recorder world in form of an eight hole whistle.

http://music.bracker.co/Whistles/D_Plus_Whistles

Very interesting.

Looks interesting. :slight_smile:

I’ve been experimenting myself with extending the range of notes playable on the whistle or simple system flute, using off-the-shelf US plumbing pipe and simple hand tools. I’m glad to see that a professional, one whose work I respect, is looking into this as well!

I too tried the bottom pinkie hole for Cnat on a high D whistle. The utility of that extra note was nice, but in order to keep the Ds nice and strong, I had to make the hole for B4 large, and pretty far removed from B3.

I’ve also experimented with ways to get a cross-fingered Fnat. The one thing I’ve found that works well is to give up on a cross-fingered low Fnat and instead size and place the B1 hole just right so that XXX OXX gives an in-tune high Fnat. I don’t know if that’s something you’ve been considering in your previous whistle designs, but I checked your tour whistles for cross-fingered high Fnat, and on both they work pretty well. On your low D, the XXX OXX gave a fairly good JI Fnat when blown gently, and on the high D XXX OXX gave a good ET Fnat when blown a bit harder.

In a six-holed whistle, though, the cross-fingering I’m really looking for is the G#s. If a whistle has good cross-fingered G#s, in both octaves, than that gives it a lot of weight for me in the purchase decision process. My go-to low D is the MK pro. A big part of why I chose it originally, and why it’s stayed my favorite, is that it has the best cross-fingered G#s of any low D I’ve tried, including Burke, Reyburn, Kerry, and Bracker. With that said, I still wish the MK’s G#s were a little flatter; you need to blow them quite gently, and the low G# is still about 10 cents sharp of ET.

Another variable to consider experimenting with, besides introducing perturbations into the bore, is to use a gauge of tubing with thicker walls. That, in my experience, tends to translate into more responsive cross-fingerings.


The low D design that I’m currently working on features an extremely large hole for E, moved away from B2, which I close with my pinky. Then, I put a smaller hole for Fnat under my newly-freed-up ring finger, in between the E hole and the F# hole. The Fnat hole works as a thumbhole does: it’s only open when I’m playing Fnat. The rest of the time, my ring finger stays covering the hole, stabilizing the whistle.

This design has a few advantages: 1. it reduces the hand stretch needed for the bottom hand, 2. it offers perfectly tuned F#s and Fnats in both octaves, no compromise necessary, 3. it provides Es with tone, volume, and tuning just as good as the notes on either side, and 4. the bigger hole for E makes half-holing the D#/Eb more practical.

This design, while I feel it’s acoustically preferable for a low D, probably wouldn’t work on a high D. The bottom hand holes would be too close together.

Thoughts?

Well, it’s obviously doable when viable cylindrical recorder models (eg the Silberton) exist, but…

I think there could be a bridge from whistle world to recorder world in form of an eight hole whistle.

I’d question the need for such a bridge when you’ll pretty well have a whistle-voiced recorder by that time.

For the player that must have it all. :slight_smile:

Any ideas on that would be most welcome! I think there could be a bridge from whistle world to recorder world in form of an eight hole whistle.

… a subject close to my heart (or is it my lips :wink: … either way, from practical experience (I’ve made several 8-hole whistles with greater or lesser degrees of success), keeping the finger-holes slightly (or even significantly) smaller than “normal” makes for an instrument that cross-fingers much more readily than one with “full-size” finger-holes. Inevitably this tends to make for a quieter whistle, but one with greater flexibility. I’ve very limited resources as far as off-the-shelf tubing is concerned, which has doubtless limited my scope, but I feel the concept is “do-able”, given an appropriate choice of bore-size to key. Consider how much smaller the finger-holes on a descant recorder are in comparasion to a C or D whistle and this might give you a few clues :wink:

Good luck :slight_smile:

@Peter: do you have this Silberton recorder? Would love to check it out, but the second hand ones coming up sometimes are far too expensive. Really like to see if they solved this puzzle. As I said, I am close, 10 cents off.

@Kypfer: smaller holes may be away, but I do not care much for weaker tone. My new D Plus whistle has large holes and a strong tone of the bottom end notes. The wider bore helps as well (same bore as my C whistle, and the bell note is c, so that makes sense). Whistles can play much stronger than recorders, an advantage I would hate to loose!

@stanton135: interesting thoughts which I have not pursued at all. Meaning I have not tried to get cross-fingered F nats or G sharps on my whistles. Saying that, the G# on the D Plus whistle can be cross-fingered well, since the tube is longer (bottom C instead of D), with X XXO XXXX.

I’ve seen makers add a right thumbhole for F natty, but it seems it’s in a pretty uncomfortable spot, from what I can tell.



The thing I find most interesting is the d-hole on the back. Care to show a picture of where exactly it’s located? I personally don’t see any need for having such a hole to play D, but the reason I find this interesting is that it can be partially covered to give a more gentle second octave. Of course whistles are fine as they are with just 6 holes, but I think it would be pretty neat to have the ability to soften that second octave and have even more control over volume and softness of it. I think it would be especially good on a whistle that is made to have a strong lower octave, but has a side-effect of having a very loud upper second octave. That would be great to pick and choose the intensity of those notes to alter how they come out on such a whistle.

Sounds like an interesting idea, Hans! Can you give a demonstration of how the second octave sounds normally, and how it sounds when that hole is utilized to soften it? Have you recorded it so we can see how it contrasts?

is the added C hole C nat or C sharp?

The added hole at the bottom end on the longer tube is for C natural, i.e. all holes closed give C nat, pinky (R4/B4) open all others closed gives D. C# is possible by half-covering the bottom hole with the pinky.

The top thumb hole is about the same distance from L1 to L2 higher up, opposite side. Actually slightly less than L1 to L2.

I hope I get around to do a demo. The drop in loudness one can achieve of the second octave top notes is quite remarkable, about 6dB I reckon.

What is the reasoning for C natural rather than sharp, as the sharp would be the most logical on a instrument in D.

C sharp is logical for D major, C natural for G major. Both these scales and related modes get played on a D whistle. I still can play the C# by half-holing with the pinky, and I got a C for G and D mixolydian, as well as for C major (half-holing R2 for F nat), and D minor, and even F major is playable. So I think the bottom C offers more versatility.

Still have the alto (with metal head and rosewood body), but regrettably sold my all-metal soprano many years ago and haven’t yet been able to source a replacement (got an old WTB buried in ‘Sold and Old’ here!). My reason for rejection being the very flat standard O|XXO|OOOO C# stemming from an unusually small thumb hole (something that also affects the equivalent alto F# to some extent), when I guess I’d be more prepared to forgive it that now with the X|OOO|OOOO alternative reducing the need for fancier forked fingerings.

Think jazz saxophonist/recorder player Dick Lee still has and plays both soprano and sopranino Silbertons, but haven’t seen him for a while.

You might also look at the Susato recorders (sorry I’ve never tried one!), which the makers describe as having ‘a bigger bore of near cylindrical bore geometry’. On which note the X|XXX|OXXX given by their fingering chart for the (soprano) lower F# could just be helpful if you’re otherwise close, and, despite not being necessary on the baroque/English-fingered Silbertons where X|XXX|OXXO works, was pretty well the norm on true baroque-fingered (ie original late 17th to mid 18th century) conical models.

Hans: do you think this could be done with a low whistle?

No. Unless one uses keys, as has been done for instance on D flutes with the C foot keys.

I think using the pinky finger to cover an extra bottom hole without a key can be done probably as low as a Bb whistle, adding a Ab hole on a longer tube, as I have done with my Bb Chanter whistle. So I could offer Plus versions for whistles from high E to Bb.

Or, you could just use the kneeflat key (partially covering the end of the tube), for low C# on a Low D whistle, if you are sitting with your leg crossed, or have an appropriate piece of furniture handy. Works quite well with practice!

Of course, if you’re standing, or using a high whistle, it can look pretty silly, and also be a bit uncomfortable to perform, depending. :wink:

…just mind ya teeth :wink: :astonished:

You know, I did think of that too, after I posted-especially with a hard surface, or if you do it too quickly-and especially if you’re playing a Chieftain Gold! Wouldn’t surprise me that they could do some nasty damage in short order, if things went wrong!

Maybe it’s a good think Phil discontinued them-maybe not though, they were killer players too!

Hans, do you suppose that the tiny vent hole for the thumb would work well on the lower whistles as well? How does it affect tuning? What about tone?