Most tutors I’ve read suggest cutting notes G down to D with the T3 hole i.e. briefly creating A, which works fine on a standard high D. But on a low D whistle, I find the cuts unresponsive and lacking crispness. Grey Larsen suggest cutting with the last but one hole covered i.e. D with B2, E with B1, F with the normal T3 and G with T2. I wonder whether other players use a different pattern of cuts (and maybe rolls) for a low whistle than they do for the standard high D.
The obvious solution would be to try cut the note you want to cut with any of the other notes and then use the one that sounds closest to how you want it to sound.
Also consider a lack of crispness can be related to execution of the cut and may vanish with practice .
Thanks for your reply. My question was addressing how other people play cuts on a low D and whether they do it differently to the pattern they use on a high D. I’ve practiced cuts a lot and can produce a nice crisp sound on a high D using T3, the same cut sounding sluggish on the low D.
By self-examination … Yes, on low whistle I might tend to cut the bell D with B1, or even both B1 and B2, instead of T3. Partly because it’s a bit cleaner on my Goldie. But also because there’s no ingrained finger habit of rolling the low D with a T3 cut. Instead, a pseudo-cran or double cut on the bell D uses B1 and B2 anyway, so using those fingers for a single cut feels pretty natural.
Well now I don’t play flute anymore, but I did for 35 years, and all those years of playing flute, high whistle, low whistle, and uilleann pipes, I pretty much did the same cuts on everything, the way I first learned back in the 70s, and that is using T3 (tophand ring finger) cuts on the whole low hand. Semetimes on G, especially on pipes, I’d sometimes use T2.
That finger being in effect the “working finger” or default finger one could say, the way T1 (tophand index finger) is on the Highland pipes.
When I started all the “old guys” and “real Irish guys” I watched and tried to model my playing after seemed to do it that way. (Which is not to say that there weren’t plenty of people who did it differently, it’s just that I wasn’t exposed to them.)
The first time I saw a different approach was at a Grey Larsen flute workshop back in the 80s. He told us that he applied logic and his ear to the issue, and decided that, the 3rd being a pleasing interval, cut every note with the 3rd above.
The logic of the T3 cut, as a couple Irish players explained to me, was “dividing the work between the two hands” when doing rolls. The fact that we can play upperhand rolls just fine, with the cut and the pat done by the same hand, seems to negate this, but I will say that in years of teaching I’ve found that beginners have more trouble with upperhand cuts and rolls, perhaps for that reason.
In other words the choice of fingers perhaps was more a matter of tradition and mechanics rather than worrying about the tone-quality of the gracenotes, when if played at the right speed aren’t heard as “notes” anyway, but as interruptions in the flow, as articulations.
Though T3 has always been my standard cut, I have had various instruments over the years (a particular flute, a particular chanter, and a number of Low Whistles) on which that cut doesn’t work well on 2nd octave E (will destabilise the note, make it break) and on those instruments I’ll use B1 (bottomhand index finger) to cut E. It never feels as nimble for me, but that’s just a matter of practice.
Of course as part of cranning we’re used to using T3, B1, and B2 more or less equally on D and E.
Combine the B2 on D, B1 on E, T3 on F#, T2 on G, and T1 on A and there’s Larsen’s “3rd above” entire.
As Gumby says you may as well let your own fingers and ears be your guide.
My question was addressing how other people play cuts on a low D and whether they do it differently to the pattern they use on a high D. I’ve practiced cuts a lot and can produce a nice crisp sound on a high D using T3, the same cut sounding sluggish on the low D.
There was a good reason why I suggested what I suggested. You seem to have worked your way through a fair number of tutors and so have been in effect been told what other people do as a matter of general approach. You don’t like it or don’t manage to make it work to your satisfaction. So it’s worth examining for yourself what does work for you.
A low D would generally have a somewhat slower response than a high whistle. Achieving a crisp-ish cut on a high whistle is not an immediate guarantee your fingering is crisp enough to get a similar response on a big holed wide bore instrument. Hence the practice suggestion.
If applying logic makes sense here may be debatable IMHO… I don’t know GL’s tutor or workshops, but this kind of approach sounds unnecessarily dogmatic and complicated to me.
Anyway, the variety of possibilities described in different tutors just shows that there is not one right way to do cuts… but this has all been reiterated here and elsewhere several times. I doubt that a survey on how others do it will be particularly helpful, but you can always start a poll here. 
Thanks for all the input. Much good stuff to consider. I wholeheartedly agree with MTGuru’s thoughts about using B1 or B2 or both (!!) on his Goldie with the bell note for a cleaner sound. I’m playing a Goldie too and can get a cleaner sound too that way.
Though T3 has always been my standard cut, I have had various instruments over the years . . . on which that cut doesn’t work well on 2nd octave E (will destabilise the note, make it break) and on those instruments I’ll use B1 (bottomhand index finger) to cut E. It never feels as nimble for me, but that’s just a matter of practice. Of course as part of cranning we’re used to using T3, B1, and B2 more or less equally on D and E.
Richard makes the same point regarding second octave E though what he says about using T3 for
“dividing the work between the two hands” when doing rolls
is very interesting. I’ve tried a roll with B1 and (as with rolls on A and B) it isn’t initially easy though I might practice it from time to time.
So varying the finger for cuts is obviously not uncommon and yet, at the same time, I will take Mr Gumby’s advice and go back and practice cuts more, try and get them tighter. They may have gotten a little lazier through absence of regular practice on their own.
Achieving a crisp-ish cut on a high whistle is not an immediate guarantee your fingering is crisp enough to get a similar response on a big holed wide bore instrument.
In addition, it didn’t perhaps occur to me that a bigger holed instrument would require a better cutting technique. I may be getting a big-holed Goldie this year to complement by standard bore so that will show up my cuts and rolls if they’re not good enough.
Thanks guys.
I wonder if anyone has listed the major variations and discussed the strengths and weaknesses of each, such as:
Do some work better on some whistles and some on others? High vs low whistles? Generations vs Clarkes?
Do some require more finger dexterity than others? Most people can control their index fingers better than their ring fingers, for example.
Do some notably “sound different” and in what way? There’s mention in this thread of “cleaner”-sounding cuts and Grey Larsen preferring 3rds.
Do some require more finger dexterity than others? Most people can control their index fingers better than their ring fingers, for example.
Nearly everybody has some ‘weaker’ fingers on the outset but that’s really an issue that can be overcome by practice. It’s worth thinking with the long term in mind: if you avoid using the weaker finger for short term ease, it will stay the weaker finger for ever.
I don’t think it’s so much a matter of strength as dexterity, or maybe more precisely finger independence. With most people, the middle finger tends to follow the ring finger.
But, either way, while one can get away with using a few fingers for cutting, all six whistle-fingers are needed for striking.
I don’t think it’s so much a matter of strength as dexterity, or maybe more precisely finger independence. With most people, the middle finger tends to follow the ring finger.
My point ofcourse was that practice develops that independence. You train your brain to control each finger individually and, over time, that’s what is what you achieve.