After listening intensly for a few days to a variety of Irish whistle tunes, I’ve noticed that cuts are more plentiful then taps and they also contribute more to that “Irish” sound.
My problem is cutting on the middle D. If I use my L3 finger it often doesn’t work well.
Anyone else have that problem?
I’ve also noticed that some notes receive more cuts than others and certain phrasings common to many different songs will have ornaments in almost the same place .
I don’t want to try to make a science of ornamentation because, like Blues music, I want to be able to “feel” it. However some guidelines seem to be a good way to learn how to feel it.
The L3 cut (G) on the D should work quite nicely. The problem could be one of two things. Your cut is not fast enough or your whistle is not responsive enough. What do you play? Cuts are used more than taps. However, a roll requires a mastery of both techniques.
I think there are people you use only L1 and L3 for cutting (pointer and ring finger of the upper, usually left, hand). I use more fingers, particularly for the second octave d, e, f: When cutting those with L3 or L1 I don’t think they sound so nice. For example, I will cut d with R2 or R1. I think it doesn’t matter as long as the cuts are short and crisp. At least I hope it doesn’t matter because I certainly don’t cut the same note with the same finger every time.
/bloomfield
[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-08-06 10:46 ]
Actually, a cran is a series of cuts in succession. For instance, L3 and R1 immediately after the other would be a cran. Also, R1 and R2 - R2 and R3. An extended cran would be R1, R2, R3.
[ This Message was edited by: celtophile on 2002-08-06 11:08 ]
geek4music,
You aren’t venting (lifting) your top (B) finger on the middle D while trying to cut, are you? Because if you are venting it, it will make it sound different.
Check out Brother Steve’s great page on Cuts, under Ornamentation:
Note that I’m playing the high Ds in this example with all my fingers down. That way my cut sounds an approximate high A. If you play the high D with your B finger lifted, you’ll get a very different sound.
MCM Transatlantic Whistle Detective Agency - no case too small.
Branches in London and Salt Lake City
[ This Message was edited by: Cees on 2002-08-06 11:37 ]
I use L1 & L3 to cut in nearly all cases, but I’ve found that if I cut a 2nd octave D with L3 that I get a choppy squawk on some whistles, instead of a clean sounding cut. So, in those cases, I cut with R1 or R2 instead, which gives a much cleaner cut.
The problem, as I see it, is breath pressure. The breath pressure to sound high D on some whistles just isn’t close to the pressure needed to sound high A (which is what happens if you cut with L3). So, you get the same squawky sound that you’d get with a bad octave transition. Since second octave G or F# is closer in breath requirements, you can often solve the ‘problem’ by cutting on those notes instead.
Wandering, that’s the same problem I have with the second octave D. The squawk. I’ve discovered that cutting with R1 works better. The only thing I don’t like is I’d rather not think about it when I do it. If I can cut with the same fingers regardless of octave then it will make it easier to get to the point where I cut automatically.
Celtophile, I have been using a Meg or Sweettone mainly. When I am outside I’ll use my Susato. That one’s harder to cut with.
As soon as I figure out how to tweak my Shaw and Clarke’s I’ll probably use them more as well.
rossmpfc13, A cut is when you add a quick grace note above the note you are going to play. A tap is when you “tap” a grace note with the note just below the one you are about to play. Unlike a grace note in other forms of music, it really should not be heard as a distinct note. It’s purpose is to accent or separate the primary note(s).
On 2002-08-06 12:48, rossmpfc13 wrote:
can someone describe to me what a cut ‘or cran’ actually is? I probably do it all the time, but I just don’t know what it’s called.
thanks
This came up on the flute and pipes boards in the past.
A cut is a single grace note played above the main note. Many whistlers cut most or all of the right hand notes with L3, although you can cut most notes with almost any higher note.
A “cran” is a piping ornament that is a series of cuts executed in a rhythmic fashion on low E or D. The succession of cuts mimics a triplet or quadruplet played on those notes. Typical fingering patterns for crans:
L3-D-R1-D-R2-D
D-R2-D-R1-D-L3-D
L3-D-R1-D-R2-D-R1-D
R1-D-R2-D-R1-D
E may be substituted for D in any of these.
Be sure to put each finger down before you lift the next one; this ensures that you hear the main note between the cuts.
[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2002-08-06 13:48 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Pat Cannady on 2002-08-06 13:48 ]
On 2002-08-06 10:37, geek4music wrote:
After listening intensly for a few days to a variety of Irish whistle tunes, I’ve noticed that cuts are more plentiful then taps and they also contribute more to that “Irish” sound.
On U-pipes, cuts are necessary for separating multiple occurrences of the same note. Many IrTrad whistlers are also pipers, so this is probably the main reason trad players are fond of cuts.
I think the problem with most players (myself included) is that we tend to raise our cut fingers too high.
I don’t want to try to make a science of ornamentation because, like Blues music, I want to be able to “feel” it.
A whistle in the key of D makes a very nice solo instrument for the blues in the key of E, if you don’t have a guitar or blues harp handy. In fact, I prefer the whistle to the harmonica because you can bend ALL the notes! All you have to do is slowly roll your finger between the half-holed and the open or closed position.
FWIW, I cut almost everything with L2, except A, obviously, and sometimes B, which want to be cut, if I’m getting this LR notation correct, with L1. The middle D I cut both with L2 and with R2, depending on the various factors (speed of the tune, direction of the wind, phase of the moon, level of guiness remaining in the current pint…)
I’ve had L2 work and not work both on vented and unvented D; with vented, it depends largely on the whistle (the air pressure theory above, I think, may be correct); with vented, it depends on the speed of the cut… it needs to be a really fast, clean cut, and it’s cutting to (something near) C natural which is a bit weird, having the grace note (if it sounded) below the main note, but if it’s going to work there’s really no note anyway, just a blip, so I guess it doesn’t matter.
I think R2 is better, it’s just that I forget to change cutting fingers when the tune is rolling along. The R2 cut for D, I picked up from a much better player than myself, and is what I really -should- be playing when my fingers aren’t being lazy.
I’m sure nobody needed to know that, but I have coffee, a web browser, and no work to do until I get more e-mail from California.
And another FWIW, I use crans on the upper D and E, not just the lower ones.
I noticed that when I’m not practicing, and not thinking about what my fingers are doing, when I want a roll or embellishment on A or G, I tend to not tap. I would do something like A, cut with L1, cut with L2.
Wonder what the purists would say about THAT! ROFL
everyone has that problem when cutting on middle d with the L3 finger. its just a matter of practice. if you do it fast enough it works. when i first tried it sounded funny and sort of broke on both my clark sweettone and my feadog. just got it to do better after 3 weeks.
in terms of why bother with using the L3 finger if other fingers sound better? i do it because i hope to move on to u pipes and i understand its important to use that same finger to cut on any right hand notes. absent that consideration, why not cut with whatever note (or finger) sounds best in your hands?
I would listen to Meir…don’t worry so much about the mechanics. Find something that sounds good and do that…it doesn’t have to be what everyone else does.
