I recently purchased and received a used Childress chanter made of cocobollo. When I received it I discovered a very small crack in the thin wood at the bottom of the bell under the brass that entends about 3/4 to 1/2 inch. The chanter plays nicely. I am wondering if anyone could offer me an opinion on how much, if any, this crack depreciates the value of the chanter. Thanks.
It clearly would depend on the buyer. I personally would not buy a chanter with a significant crack (unless it was something exceptional like a Rowsome).
If you are wondering how much the seller should refund you, if they didn’t disclose the defect, I would contact Bruce and ask how much it would cost to fix it, then add some. In my experience of woodwinds, a crack is only going to get worse if it isn’t repaired proficiently. I like to see the end of a crack drilled and plugged to stop it growing The fact that it’ s under the ferrule is good.
If it plays well…play it…and don’t worry about the crack you mentioned.
IMO such a crack under the ferrule is’nt that likely to grow. It’s not like a flute, where such a crack would require immediate attention due to humidity cycling, leaks, etc. - I see chanters with such cracks pretty frequently.
Like Glands says, if it plays well I wouldn’t sweat it.
regards
Bill
I second all that, don’t worry about it, and it shouldn’t have much effect on the value. Easy to repair if it gets any worse - which it won’t especially if the mount above the ferrule is the same wood as the chanter itself.
Would you sell a new chanter to a customer with a 3/4" crack in it? Would you charge full price and say it doesn’t matter?
The OP has bought a chanter with an undisclosed defect. Do you really think that’s acceptable?
I would not worry too much, keep an eye on it to make sure that it does not get larger, but at the end of the day the utility of a good chanter far outweighs minor cosmetics; if it plays well that is is what it was made for. If it becomes a problem years hence, well at least you will have had years of pleasure from it!
Cheers,
Charlie.
Thanks for the feedback and opinions. I always find it helpful to get feedback from forum members, as usually you all think of something that I didn’t, like contacting the maker! Bruce got back to me very quickly and his opinion is that the crack is likely stable, and related to the wood changing under the ferrule. I have purchased a set of pipes in the past from a forum member who did not disclose multiple problems with the pipes, and I am still waiting for him to keep his word on correcting the situation. In this case, however, I believe that the seller did not know about the crack, as it is very small, hard to detect, and easily missed unless carefully looked for, knowing what to look for. So, no hard feelings towards the seller. I believe that the price of the chanter was fair, at about half the cost of new, and I am going to move forward, keep playing the chanter and try to get better at it. This is the second Childress chanter I have played, and I think that it is very good. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Would you sell a new chanter to a customer with a 3/4" crack in it?
No.
Would you charge full price and say it doesn’t matter?
No. Are you suggesting that I would?
The OP has bought a chanter with an undisclosed defect. Do you really think that’s acceptable?
Yes, if the seller had no idea it was there! Of course if the description said “like new” that’s a different thing.
I was specifically assuming that you wouldn’t sell a chanter with a defect, so it’s hard to argue that the crack doesn’t affect the chanter’s value. Just because a chanter is used, doesn’t mean a physical defect is acceptable.
One of the first questions I’d like to ask is; are you sure it’s a crack?
This isn’t meant as an insult to your intelligence! Please don’t take it as such. Cocobolo has a very wonderful and interesting grain. Most species have a very distinct grain that includes black lines. These VERY frequently look JUST like cracks, though they are NOT.
If it IS a crack I imagine you must have been inspecting your new chanter VERY closely!
The crack is most likely not a result of a problem with the wood. It might have happened as the result of some odd interference on the part of the previous owner. Or it was something that occurred during construction. At one point in it’s construction (nearing completion) the chanter was held by a 3 or 4 jaw chuck and a live center. The top of the chanter would have been held by the chuck while the live center would have been used on the end where the crack is. Since SOME pressure is needed to squeeze the chanter between the chuck and the center it’s most likely THAT caused the crack in the very thin walled bell (bottom) of the chanter.
When I had a chanter at this stage I NEVER used a live center (a freely spinning cone shape) unless the bell was firmly supported by a ferrule. If the ferrule and wood tolerance is tight the ferrule should prevent any* cracking. I generally used an inverted live center (concave ..not convex) which would entirely prevent this from occurring.
It’s an easy mistake to make. It’s also an easy repair. The crack itself should be glued. And the addition of a ferrule, also glued / epoxied in place would further strengthen the crack.
Bruce is a fine craftsman and a great guy. If it occurred during construction it’s most likely he never spotted it. I’d be interested to see a pic of the crack or to know how “severe” it is.
I stumbled upon a lot of discussion in the guitar world related to cocobollo while researching a non-UP project. I does seem that thin sections are prone to cracking due to changes in humidity affecting areas of varying density.
I am not very fond of using epoxy or other glue to mount ferrules, especially cylindrical ones, onto wood. I have repaired too many of these. As the wood shrinks and expands, due to enviromental vagaries, the bond of the glue, over time, often breaks and you have a loose ferrule. I usually clean out the old glue and use black waxed flax or hemp shoe thread to wrap around the wood. This is the old-time method and I have not seen it improved on by “modern” methods. If the space between is small, I use a very fine thread. The black wax is the adhesive and the thead joint will handle the wood movement better than an entirely inflexable adhesive.I then press fit the ferrule over the wood. For a tight fit, I may heat the ferrule to expand it and install it, allowing it to cool in place. Gluing, dissimilar materials on pipes, even with modern adhesives, is not the best solution, IMHO. I have seen a number of mainstock ferrules especially, come loose on new sets because of different environments of where they are made vs. where they end up.
The crack on the chanter in question can be well repaired by gluing it and mounting the ferrule as I have suggested. Most likely no further expansion of the crack will happen. I would not consider such a repaired chanter to be faulty or of less value.
Ted,
I agree with your assessments of these problems. It seems to me the worst contributor to that problem which is often overlooked out of impatience and rushing certain processes. What I am referring to is rushing the “seasoning” of woods and parts after different stages of manufacture. Heck, I know I’ve been guilty of this. There IS a point where most woods stabilize dimensionally…at least relatively speaking as there will always be SOME movement. No matter how much seasoning had been done prior to turning. Each time new surface is exposed, a settling period should be allowed.