We Brits are noted for our inventive genius Aodhan (or is it eccentricity? - No thats the stuff that makes the lights work!). 
[ This Message was edited by: kevin m. on 2003-01-21 15:02 ]
Hey! No casting dispersions upon harmonious Libras!!
And yes, I am one, 
Andrea ~*~
Well–I knew it…
Zoob, our Libra whistler’s astrological proclivities notwithstanding, (I’m a Taurus, Leo rising), I’ve tried the experiment with the following shapes:
tetrahedron
cube
dodecahedron
Moebius strip
paper airplane
… and the following suspension media:
cotton sewing thread
nylon fishline (1# test solid)
very fine alumuminium chain
That last was the only one that did nothing discernable - possibly because of the mass.
I wonder why the rotation would be in opposition to Coriolis… and why you can stop it at any time, and it will remain stopped until you look at it directly again.
I’m not here to explain - only to toss things in the air for someone more intelligent than I to catch.
Cheers,
serpent
~*~ 
Serpie-Pie—< 
I wonder why the rotation would be in opposition to Coriolis…
Not to get into this one, but…at this scale the ‘Coriolis’ forces are soooo tiny to be neglegible. The problem is, generations of elementary school teachers have tought us the lie that water goes down the drain in the opposite direction in each hemisphere – which simply ain’t true. But because of this most people believe that the Coriolis forces play a part at this scale. Huricanes, yes, water and psychic experiments, no.
BTW this myth (of water spinning down holes) is so prevalent that it has made some school physics textbooks that are still in print!
PS, I’m thinking of taking up dowsing. Serpent, perhaps you could send me a couple of copper rods (with 6 holes in each) I could use 
Hey, did you all know that aliens built the pyramids?!
And notice how the three pyramids at Giza are aligned along a straight line. Coincidence? I think not!
About that rotating tetrahedron.
I have been to a “floatarium” a two times, you know the salt water tank where you float for an hour or so in warm salt water for relaxation purpose.
No matter how I tried to position myself “symmetric” in the tanks, I found myself rotating counter clockwise, I was really puzzled by this and had never heard about it before.
When I came out from the shower the girl that worked in the floatarium asked me how the experience was and if I did feel the body rotating according to the earth gravitation/spinning/magnetic poles or wathever, and “shure” I said.
Seems like the body is like a big compass needle or something when floating.
Cool
/Peter
The problem is, generations of elementary school teachers have tought us the lie that water goes down the drain in the opposite direction in each hemisphere – which simply ain’t true. But because of this most people believe that the Coriolis forces play a part at this scale. Huricanes, yes, water and psychic experiments, no.
BTW this myth (of water spinning down holes) is so prevalent that it has made some school physics textbooks that are still in print!
Whoa! I’ve actually done this experiment in both hemispheres, and it DOES go the other way round: clockwise in the NH, and anti-clockwise in the SH (there’s the possibility I got mixed up in my mind on the 24h flight of course, but many Aussies/Kiwis mention this here in London as a phenomenon they’ve noticed).
Where’s Wombat when you need him? Wombat, have a go with your sink and report back!
On 2003-01-21 14:27, aderyn wrote:
Just to clarify, I’m not exactly looking for proof of existence of ley lines, as I happen to already believe in them and I doubt much will sway my opinion on that. >Andrea ~*~
Andrea, an excellent book for this is “A Little History of Astro-Archaeology” by John Michell (correct spelling), ISBN 0 500 27097X, published by Thames & Hudson of London. It was published in 1977 and I bought it about 20y ago, so I don’t know if it’s still in print. There are so many examples of ancient sites in exact alignment over many miles shown in the book, that while someone may dispute ley lines, they CANNOT dispute the fact that the ancients built their structures in straight lines over many distances.
“Where there is music and laughter there is God, where there is dissent there is ego”
[ This Message was edited by: nickt on 2003-01-22 04:52 ]
Andrea,
I’ve sent you two e-mails, if they haven’t arrived, let me know & I’ll put the info in a PM instead.
Martin
“I’ve always been a believer, I’m just not sure what it is I believe in.”
Serpent,
- thanks for answering regarding the variations of media used in your experiment* . So it seems my hunch was right not to buy the tetrahedron bit, when according to you the random potatoïd seems to suffice.
- However forget a “Coriolis sense”. The results to us is just that tiny unbalance which statistically (and certainly not systematically) will give an orientation to motions which would otherwise go random. In a given hemisphre, most all depressions spin one way, most all anticyclons anti-that-way. Things get mixed up at Equator level. And I did not say it explains your experiment, though it would be interesting to hear the results of someone building the same experience as you somewhere in Oz or NuZ.
Also, reality being always more complex than suspected, it may be that your experiment would combine the influence of two forces–Coriolis and a “je ne sais quoi”…
It’s not your case, I’m sure, but why is it most believers in “psychic” things reject
any hard science–even partial!–explanation, just the same as many scientists will not even consider building the experiment in the firt place?
\
- Eventhough the Moebius strip does indicate a somewhat one-tracked, yet warped, mind
Sheessh… typical Taurus, yet Leo
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-01-22 05:54 ]
Hmm… I read about this so-called phenomenon in Mickie Zekely’s memoir, which is full of all kinds of amusing hippie anecdotes.
nickt, thanks for the book recommendation! I remember that Michell had another book that I had really wanted a few months ago, so I’ll have the bookstore order both for me.
Martin, I haven’t received either of the two emails-- how strange! It should have worked, provided the “spam blocker” part was taken out. They’re probably lost in cyberspace somewhere…
Andrea ~*~
On 2003-01-22 09:53, aderyn wrote:
Martin, I haven’t received either of the two emails-- how strange! It should have worked, provided the “spam blocker” part was taken out. They’re probably lost in cyberspace somewhere…
Andrea ~*~
Is that somehting I’m supposed to do? I’m not familiar with all this spam stuff, I’m still expecting a tin of canned meat.
I’ll send again with the amendment…
MM
Sorry for the confusion, Martin! Yes, if you type my email address so that it reads @birdonabough.com it should work this time. It’s typed the other way on my profile on Beth’s recommendation-- it’s supposed to stop automatic SPAM from coming through.
If you really need a tin of Spam, I could send you one but I really don’t recommend it. Blecch!
Andrea ~*~
On 2003-01-22 04:44, nickt wrote:
The problem is, generations of elementary school teachers have tought us the lie that water goes down the drain in the opposite direction in each hemisphere – which simply ain’t true. But because of this most people believe that the Coriolis forces play a part at this scale. Huricanes, yes, water and psychic experiments, no.
BTW this myth (of water spinning down holes) is so prevalent that it has made some school physics textbooks that are still in print!Whoa! I’ve actually done this experiment in both hemispheres, and it DOES go the other way round: clockwise in the NH, and anti-clockwise in the SH (there’s the possibility I got mixed up in my mind on the 24h flight of course, but many Aussies/Kiwis mention this here in London as a phenomenon they’ve noticed).
There has been research done on this, and the direction is random. If you wait long enough so that there’s no residual turbulence in the water, and if the drain is in the middle of a large tub, there won’t be any rotation at all.
Zoob wrote:
And I trust you for the results. I’ll even reject the easy but partial explanation by the purely physical Coriolis force, which will send in motion any resting pendulum.
Actually, the Coriolis force is proportional to the velocity of the object, so it can’t initiate any motion, it can only change it.
On 2003-01-21 20:12, serpent wrote:
I wonder why the rotation would be in opposition to Coriolis… and why you can stop it at any time, and it will remain stopped until you look at it directly again.I’m not here to explain - only to toss things in the air for someone more intelligent than I to catch.
Cheers, >
serpent
~*~ >
If it stops when you look at it, then it seems logical that your gaze or thoughts are somehow related to its movement, correct?
Well, look here: http://www.randi.org/jref/index.html - this is the James Randi Educational Foundation page, offering $1,000,000 (that’s a whole boatload of whisltes…) for any such phenomenon that would meet the criteria you have for your experiment… I’ll expect my 10% brokerage fee in the mail
More seriously, things as reproducible as the experiment you described just don’t stand up to scientific scrutiny - at least, I am unaware of any such experiments. If you genuinely thing that your example will, contact Randi and let us know how it turns out. If we see you on the board giving out a truckload of whistles in sixty days, I guess I’ll know what happened
Richard
On 2003-01-22 04:44, nickt wrote:
The problem is, generations of elementary school teachers have tought us the lie that water goes down the drain in the opposite direction in each hemisphere – which simply ain’t true. But because of this most people believe that the Coriolis forces play a part at this scale. Huricanes, yes, water and psychic experiments, no.
BTW this myth (of water spinning down holes) is so prevalent that it has made some school physics textbooks that are still in print!Whoa! I’ve actually done this experiment in both hemispheres, and it DOES go the other way round: clockwise in the NH, and anti-clockwise in the SH (there’s the possibility I got mixed up in my mind on the 24h flight of course, but many Aussies/Kiwis mention this here in London as a phenomenon they’ve noticed).
Where’s Wombat when you need him? Wombat, have a go with your sink and report back!
Here’s a couple of references:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/bathtub.html
Thanks to http://www.badastronomy.com for these links
On 2003-01-22 11:25, fatveg wrote:
Here’s a couple of references:
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/bathtub.htmlThanks to > http://www.badastronomy.com > for these links
That second link is from the web page of Albert Baez, proud father of Joan, Mimi, and Pauline. He’s one of the fathers of modern x-ray optics and a helluva nice guy.
Well, dear old Albert Baez may be a helluva nice guy, but has he actually been to the SH and experimented? I have, and I tell you it goes the other way round, EVERY TIME.
If it works with large-scale meteorological systems, it would also seem to work with bath tubs too. I’ve noticed that modern science has a basic physical premise; i.e. “the smaller the figure, the less the influence”, but I’m not so sure that’s so. There’s a huge rage going on re homoeopathic medicine and the fact that it is massively diluted so that the original ingredient is virtually non-existent - but, the latest experiments show the water maintains the “memory” of it, because the medicines have been proven to work (disputed by some, but now generally accepted).
The history of our modern science has a physical premise, but there are all kinds of unseen influences going about which we know little.