Climate and cracks

kkrell wrote:
One of the reasons I selected Hammy to build my flute was his philosophy of construction. It involved a good stash of blackwood to begin with, and a process of allowing the flute to stabilize at various points during it’s completion. My flute spent a great deal of time as a block of wood with a hole in it, and I was in no hurry.

I’ll second that Kevin. I have a cocus flute Hammy made that I waited 14 months for (instead of the estimated 6), the extra wait due to a blank that took the extra time to dry and a maker who recognized the necessity of waiting. Like I said earlier, I now live in a place where it only rains a half-dozen times a year and the humidity is negligible at best. Aside from my few loose rings there is no sign of anything splitting and the joints are all still as solid as the first week I had it.

All the best,
Wes

Yes, the Murray flute is certainly the thinnest I’ve seen.

Wood when it seasons undergoes a change in structure from hemicelluloses to cellulose ,as I understand it ,rather than drying .Perhaps flutes work better when they have had time to season as well as dry .I was interested recently in a Stradivari violin the front of which was of wood 5 or fewer years old when big S. carved it !

I have a Murray and I live in Sweden. Sweden is very dry in winter time and all houses have central heating. I got my Murray 1997 and there´s no cracks. I don´t do nothing with my flute, I never dry it out, no oil, no nothing. I just put it in the box after playing. I have no problem with the flute. I have a friend who do all kinds of stuff with his flute. He use oil, dry it out,etc and of course he got a crack in his flute. I don´t think there´s anything you can do to avoid cracks. I think lots of the makers force the wood to dry faster and ship the flute too early.

Sorry for my poor english… :blush:

Ojvoj,

Just curious: How often do you play your flute, and how often does your friend (who’s Murray cracked) play his?

Loren

I play my Murry almost every day and my friend too.

Pär

I have a couple of thoughts and observations on this . . . if you’ll allow me to share them.

The crack thing is tough, and I would be willing to bet (as an observer and not as a maker) that sometimes it’s just in the timber. I’ve got a friend who makes instruments (not flutes) who has told me that sometimes a billet of (wood name here) that’s been sitting around seasoning for years will crack once it’s been made into an instrument part. He says he can’t tell what timber’s going to do it, but if one piece cracks, often other pieces from that log/billet/whatever will crack.

The other aspect, the seasoning time, is probably as crucial (and we have more control over it). I really think it’s something to think about when folks are all excited about a flutemaker’s short waitlist. Unless that maker’s got turning squares lying around with holes drilled in them, that have been lying around for (literally) years in relatively stable conditions, the timber used is just going to shift and or crack, unless you’re lucky. Our expectations on the amount of time it ought to take to make a flute are perhaps unreasonable.

This goes along with what a lot of you have said.

How many people ask about a maker’s timber stock when ordering a flute?

Also, there’s something else that also sticks in my craw when we talk about Ireland. It is just plain uncommon, even in North America, for houses to have much humidity in the winter, for one thing. Regardless of the ambient outdoor humidity on the Emerald Isle, inside, where people are actually making the instruments, it’s DAMN dry. When I got my Cotter, which was my first real Irish flute, Eamonn told me he’d kept it in the kitchen next to a pot of boiling water to emulate the humid conditions the flute would experience in East Texas. The flute didn’t crack. Just because it’s humid outside doesn’t mean it’s going to be humid inside: in fact, it usually means the opposite will be true when heat is involved. Heck, I run the A/C in Houston to get the humidity indoors below 80%. In the winter, when I have to heat, it dries off to a parched 50% RH indoors. North America’s a big place, some of it wet, some dry. Ireland’s a big wet place, but indoors, in winter, it can be REALLY dry.

So . . . hmm. I think it sucks when flutes crack, but sometimes, it’s in the cards. I think Andrew (et al.) are right on the money when he/they suggest that instruments be shipped in something like a Ziplock bag, or with something else as a moisture barrier. The RH on an airplane, in the hold or in the passenger cabin, will drop below 20% really quickly. Who knows about oiling. And, despite the salvos from both sides, I really don’t think there’s evidence to suggest that lining a barrel makes it crack. Unlined flutes crack all the time (lots of cracks aren’t in the headjoint, too). I oil a lot because I don’t think it hurts. And, here in the frozen North, I keep the flutes in a room with a humidifer, and keep the RH of the room up around 50%.

Stuart

I usually do.

You and me both! That’s why when I ordered an Aebi, I picked boxwood.

His stash has been seasoning 80 years. :slight_smile:

Stuart

Yes, me too, but his stash is running out!

What, is the guy like one hundred and ten years old, or did his parents decide he was going to be a flute maker before he was born and stock up on boxwood in the early 1900’s :laughing:

Loren

Loren, do you mean to tell me you DON’T have an 80-year-old supply of wood lying around somewhere? I thought everybody did. Huh. Guess you’re gonna have to wait a while before you can become a flute maker. I’ve already started the pile for my great-grandkids!

:laughing:
Steven

Like Dave Copley says in his cares list, I keep my flute at an average of 70% wich seems to be quite a lot humider than a lot of you guys say.

Would’nt be logical to keep your flute in a much humider place since the flute cracks when it dries out?

Any thoughts?

No, I wouldn’t think so. I’ve kept flutes in humidities of not below 50% with no problems, and a friend in Québec is happy with the mid-40s %RH.

70% seems unreasonably high, just because it’s (a) uncomfortable and (b) just means you’ll get condensation on everything.

It’s just a gestalt thing, but I wonder why Copley recommends 70%? I wonder if wood even seasons when it’s that moist. :puppyeyes:

Not that I really have any hard evidence on it. Above 50% is easily achievable with a humidifier in the winter. 70% is probably nearly untenable in cold climates with central heat. I mean, if the instrument won’t survive reasonable room temperature and humidity . . .

Stuart

I recommend a minimum humidity level of 60%. However, I think it is really a matter of reducing risk rather than an absolute cut-off. The drier the environment, the more likely a flute is to crack. Obviously you don’t want it to be so humid that you get condensation or mold. In my experience that is likely to happen when you get above 85%.

A lot of people use a sealed or semi-sealed container, which can easily be kept more humid than the rest of the house. I use an old refrigerator.

As well as the care recommendations, I do a few things during manufacture to reduce the risk of cracking, and I believe that the overall approach has worked out quite well. Over the last 4 years I have had cracks reported in fewer than 3% of flutes (keep in mind that almost all our flutes have metal-lined barrel and head joint).

Dave Copley
Loveland, Ohio

Fortunately, I have connections :smiley: , so I have a bit of a head start on acquiring seasoned wood. Perhaps Mr. Aebi was fortunate enough to be in a similar situation - and I certainly wasn’t dissing him, just having a bit of fun with the topic. :slight_smile:

Loren

As far as humidity goes… some may find it surprising that I have yet to see the Hygrometers in our shop read higher than 45%, and it’s often in the high 20’s. We’ve got probably 50-75 essentially finished Blackwood and Ebony instruments racked in the shop that aren’t cracking (we do production in quantity, so many of these instruments have been in this environment for many months. We rarely see (our) grenadilla instruments return for crack repairs.

Is it the length of seasoning (much, but not all, of our wood was purchased 30 years ago), or the fact that the wood is turned and finished in a fairly low humidity environment that makes a difference? Both? Neither? Will we ever know? Where’s Waldo? And what ever happened to Kaiser Soze?

Some mysteries may never be solved…

Loren

<<And what ever happened to Kaiser Soze?
thats why the gods will provide us with “the usual suspect 2”, carved in stone, delivered in a ziplock bag with a wet rag.
I’m a true believer.

I think

Heh, heh. :laughing:

My blackwood Olwell has been with me from NH all over the US, to Ireland, Germany, Mexico and Costa Rica. It has gone through huge changes in temperature, humidity and general climate, including many, many flights and a number of bone-dry winters. I haven’t had a single problem with it whatsoever. Solid as a rock. Solid as a rock.
Damn Olwell makes good flutes :smiling_imp:
Chris