Narrowdog, glad to see your efforts improved the whistle some. Also like reading how reshaping the blade can make such a difference. Those M-shaped blades waste a lot of air! I have a Clarke Original but while I’m still considering how to duct-tape a couple VW bugs inside the windway, to narrow the channel, I don’t have the tools to fiddle with the blade, so I’ll leave it be.
. A large part of the issue is just quality control.
Consider if a large part of the issue isn’t breathcontrol instead.
Ever noticed it’s almost invariably the total beginners who come on here complaining about Generations?
The old running joke on this forum used to be how these whistles immensely improved when left in a drawer for a few years.
Also, about a week ago I heard some of her finest, sweetest whistle duets you are likely to hear. Guess what they were playing..
I guess the problem with that point is that the cheap stuff usually targets the beginner. I don’t have a problem with the Generation from a playability point of view, it’s the tuning/intonation that is bad. Perhaps these whistles are sold only with the cheap and cheerful tourist/gift-shop market in mind. If I was making instruments I would make sure my design was not fundamentally flawed. Just the fact that there seems to be a formal market for tweaked low-end whistles is telling on it’s own.
Ok this is 100% correct haha. The cheapies are way too hard to play well. Not that a Burke will just magically make a new player good. But a Gen is definitely harder to play, which doesnt help when the new players dont know how to play already.
It doesnt help that theres tons of tweak threads. It just makes them look bad, like they have to be tweaked to not play like garbage.
And if burkes were the cheap one new players started on I expect they would complain about them aswell. But when when they got a Gen they would be back to their Burke haha.
I’m just using Burkes as an example because that’s what I ended up getting and thought my play sounded way better on. But there’s many others that would fill the same role.
Thankyou for putting us right about this instrument you’ve just discovered. After all these decades I realise I was doing it wrong all along … who’d have thunk it? It also seems that the music shops and stalls I’ve frequented over the years were actually cheap and cheerful tourist gift shops in disguise; I am devastated.
shouts off stage … “oi, Cathal, put it down, you know it’s fundamentally flawed, nothing good will come of it”
PS: In the midst of your rant I noticed a mention of “tuning.” When an instrument is out of tune, then I generally tune it. Did you try this? A genuine question since many beginners don’t think of this or realise it’s possible.
Yes, I have removed the head, filled it with bluetac, placed it back, tuned to bottom D and some notes are out with respect to others. “Perhaps you just have a dud”. I’m genuinely glad you appear to have better luck with you purchases than I seem to have had. I’ve played wind instruments for about 10 years of my life, solo, in ensembles and in orchestra, so whilst fully acknowledging I am no expert on penny whistles in particular, I believe I have sufficient experience to tell when I am dealing with a dud. I have no doubt in my mind that you would know better than I. I’m also working with a sample size of 2, which in fairness is not representative. Why is there a market for tweaked whistles?
A man walks into an instrument forum and starts: ‘I just bought a fiddle but it must be faulty, when I use the bow it sounds scratchy and when I put my fingers down, the notes are all wrong. I played guitar all my life so I know string instruments..’
What sort of a reaction do you think this would get?
On the whistle forum, you are that guy.
But rest assured, you aren’t the first to make an entry like this and, unfortunately, you won’t be the last.
A whistle playing duet was mentioned earlier, so here is a charming example to cheer up the mood of this thread … played on Generation whistles of course 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp7lw5G7Mug
One of the clearest memories I have of a musician on stage is of Cathal McConnell playing with Boys of the Lough. It was “The People’s Jubilee” at Alexandra Palace in 1977 and I was 10 years old. Dave Richardson was in the band by then I think, and of course there was Aly Bain too … but all I remember is Cathal McConnell on tin whistle. He played a couple of sets, one of which was Boys of Blue Hill / Harvest Home, which even I could play.
But how he played; great timing, lovely inventive variations whilst still giving the tune. And what did he play? A humble little Generation D whistle with a blue head, just like I had at home.
Was this a seminal moment in my musical “career”? No, not really, I didn’t start playing a tin whistle because of this, nor did I need it to confirm that I was playing a proper instrument. Still, it was the instrument I had, and he demonstrated what it was capable of doing with a well known set of tunes. This is certainly why I remember it so clearly.
Beautifully played indeed. It’s absolutely charming and it’s great how despite the pace and complexity they keep well in time. Thanks for the link Andrew.
Can you tell me what’s wrong with my observations please? Is the intonation on all Generations great, and I am doing something wrong? Are top A and B on the Clarke difficult to hit cleanly unless you blow like crazy? Apologies for being “that guy”. I’m loving getting into the whistles, but it’s tricky when I have virtually no local source of instruments. My Generation I bought here as it’s the only brand I can find and the shop had 1 whistle in D. My Clarke I had someone hand carry over from Europe because I can’t trust the postal system locally. So yes, loving it and finding it frustrating at the same time. That’s why I am on here asking for help. I think I will cough up for a Killarney. All the reviews mention excellent playability and consistency of quality. Not only is that important for me as a beginner, because it will help with enjoyment, but even more so given that instruments are tricky to physically get.
Look Andrew, I am not here to pick a fight over this, been there and have a wardrobe full of tshirts.
The observations of the hypothetical man with his new fiddle weren’t wrong either, putting the blame on the instrument before learning to play it properly is where the problem is.
You keep asking why there is a market for ‘tweaked’ whistles. That’s probably a whole different discussion but let’s instead stop and think for a moment why a large portion of the finest traditional players we have persist playing those supposedly flawed (Generation type) instruments when there is now such a choice of, according to some here, ‘superior’ instruments available.
And let’s avoid the whole ‘they must have been lucky/have tried dozens of duds’, ‘if you can play like that you can play anything well’ type of argument.
Cheers to that. I’m not after a fight either, so that makes two of us. 
What I am after is understanding what resources are available to me and which is best from a beginner’s perspective. I have found both whistles non-ideal for different reasons, and I have voiced my (strong emphasis on) opinion. I love the breathy more organic sound of the Clarke, but if I have to blow that hard to hit the high G and A, it’s going to end my marriage. 
What am I doing wrong? I don’t know. It’s a bit frustrating because I have virtually no alternatives to try here without importing. That’s tricky as our postal service is dicey, so now I have to rely of travelling friends. Anyway, I have ‘ordered’ a different whistle and I hope it will be more of a success for me.
Finally, let me apologise if I came out of the starting blocks a bit quick. It’s not my intention to ruffle feathers. It’s a frustration thing, not an arrogance thing.
If anyone can give any advice as to how to get to those higher notes without blowing like a northerly gale, it would be much appreciated.
Cheers. 
There is a reason why Clarkes were dropped as soon as plastic headed Generations appeared during the 1950s.
And that was well before the current Clarke production.
I only recall hearing them played in public on very rare occasions, often just to get a different sound. The only use in a serious context in decades perhaps Peadar O Riada and Caoimhin O Ragallaigh at the premiere of An Triur.
I have one old Clarke that actually works well enough although I don’t feel a particular urge to play it.
You should probably check for leaks around the block and fix any you find. I am not a fan of just squashing the windway although it will probably need some reduction. The secret lies in how the windway floor and the ‘lip’ at the far end of the window line up. Problem is, you may work on it, have it nice enough, one step from good and then you move it a fraction on a millimetre and loose all sound. Then you can start again. It’s very delicate work, frustrating without any guarantees you will end up with a decently playing whistle.
Generation type whistles are a different story, they basically need a delicate touch. Finding the sweet spot between head placement, breath control and fingerings is what you need to concentrate on. Once that’s done I can’t think of a more delicate, agile and responsive, sweet sounding whistle.
I endorse getting a Killarney, but for maybe a different reason than you might expect. There’s probobly nothing wrong with your Generation. But. Having a nice hand made instrument, that tons of other people praise heavily, that you know for a fact is playing how its supposed to, gives a huge peace of mind as a new player. If you had some local whistlers you knew who could play your Generation and say its a good one, you would feel a lot better. But when you can’t, its just really demotivating to play, when theres lots of people out there who also think theirs is a dud. And the way the Killarney plays MAY be what your looking for and be easier (or not).
We had very similar starts in whistling. My first whistle was a Clarke sweet tone, which I hated. I then got a Feadog D Pro, which I thought was a dud (I thought the tuning was terrible), but still played because it bugged me less than the clarke. Then I got a Generation Bb. Which I liked the most of the 3, but still thought the tuning was still off. Then I got a Tilbury C, and thought it confirmed all my suspicions. I liked it way more, thought it actually played in tune, etc. My tastes in whistles has since changed and I ended up selling it off, but its still the thing the actually got me practicing and not thinking my instrument was the problem. A year of quarantine later, I can confirm that my Feadog and Gen Bb are not duds. I still like them less than my hand mades, makers are doing things to make them easier to play in tune (some makers more than others). Which is probobly a large part of why there’s so many people online who say their Gen’s were bad and love their Killarney (or other high end maker). And I’m not trying to start a debate on cheap vs expensive whistles. I just think there’s something there that makes new players usually enjoy the switch.
BUT definitely keep playing your gen while waiting for the Killarney. You could even decide you like it more than the Killarney. But trying out different whistles is nice, it helps find what traits you really like.
Thanks for the advice! I saw a mod on the Clarke that involved placing a section of clarinet reed into the mouthpiece. I may give that a try as a starting point. I can feel that the Clarke is less responsive, but I like the airy tone. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Perhaps it is better for more mellow slow airs rather than the quick stuff. I have changed the shape of the mouthpiece now a bit, but that has not changed the airway. I’ll check for leaks as well.
On the Generation, I notice how delicate one needs to be. Specially on the lower notes. It seems to be all about breath control. Having two diametrically opposite whistles is perhaps not ideal.
Aaaaand on a personal note, we got of to a rocky start, but not intentionally, so I appreciate your willingness to continue to engage. Down the road, I’ll be sure to let you know how I am getting along.
Cheers,
Andrew
I find the topic of “tweeking” to reveal an ironic activity; the spending of more $$$.
To clarify it, has anyone got a detailed list of the tools, supplies and costs involved to do a proper tweek?
We know the whistle brands involved that are commonly tweeked, and the cost of the whistle
seems cheap to begin with, but if tweeking is so commonly desired, what equipment expenses and specific
whistle-tweeker skills can a whistle player expect to see as part of the purchase/setup, in order to make these
whistles that need tweeking, functional to the point of satisfaction?
I can offer up a guess, that the cost of the tools and supplies needed to do a proper tweek
will be roughly 3X to 5X to 10X the cost of the whistle itself. And that presumes that you
get past the surgery, accomplished a successful tweek on the first attempt, and didn’t make things worse.
So, Whistle $12 + $40 in tools/supplies, sound about right? Bare minimum?
And do you need a vice or larger tool in the tool shed, to do this?
A small table vice may be $28 to $75. Three simple table-top clamps would be $15 or more.
That’s going to hold the whistle in place, if need be. Then you need tools to reshape a blade,
or windway or window, or adjust tone holes. What tools do that, and what do they cost?
How much is a packet of that BlueTak, and how many tweeks can be
done with $___ spent on BlueTak? Need a file? Pliers? Extra-fine sandpaper or cleaning fluid
and polishing cloths? Grease or teflon tape for a tuning-slide or mouthpiece repair?
When I started whistling I had this rocket scientist idea, that I could save a ton of money by making my own. Over $1,000 in tools, and probobly hundreds of hours later, I’m back to buying whistles haha. Tweaking is less in tools but similar concept. If someone wants a professionally tweaked whistle, just buy from a tweaker. You can do it yourself, especially if its an easy tweak. But if you end up spending a lot of time, and or do a bad job, it was worth spending the money on getting from someone who has a lot more experience doing it.
The Clarkes that are currently sold are terribly inefficient in their use of air. It feels like most of the ait you put into them doesn’t do anything but hiss or disappear, anything but being translated into musical sounds.
I have a few, Clarke or of the type, that work really well. The two in the picture are a D, clealry marked Clarke and a red F that may be a Clarke made for export by some branch of the Clarke family during the mid 20th century or one made in Germany or Eastern Europe around that time (this one was sent over from Bulgaria). It’s hard to say why the D works so well (and it does really work and sound very well for the type), I have been trying to configure a modern C into the same state, so far without success. The red one is infinitely better designed and made than the current Clarke output, the windway is straight and square, as it really shoud be. It works fine.
Fussing about the cost of tools to modify these is really a bunch of hot air, a paint can opener, a small file of two (or any old strip of metal the right size) and perhaps a small screwdriver or whatever you have handy, go a long way when trying to tackle a Clarke.
So, my memory isn’t playing tricks with me and Clarke whistles used to have “squared-off” ends and didn’t have that indentation in the labium.
I just recently acquired a new Clarke “original” D whistle. It wasn’t the instrument I was actually after, it came with a job lot of whistles on Ebay, but out of sentimentality it wasn’t unwelcome. I always used to have at least one Clarke whistle (they were all C whistles in those days) kicking around when I was a kid. They weren’t my favourite, but they were always an interesting diversion.
Now on to this new one. The first thing I noticed is that the wooden block protrudes into the window. It doesn’t seem to have slipped down, it’s just how it is. Also I notice that the block is now glued into place; those three indentations on each side on the head are gone.
Then there’s the blade/labium. If you look down the airway, the indentation that they put into the labium isn’t centred, and the raised part is significantly higher and larger on one side that the other. Put this with the new bowed top airway and I think it’s obvious why this whistle is inefficient and takes a delicate touch to play, especially at the bottom end.
When it’s well warmed up and you’ve attuned yourself to it, it behaves better. I also treated it with a de-clogging solution, one part Ecover washing-up liquid to three parts water in an eye-dropper; this improved matters considerably.
The second octave can sing quite beautifully especially on slow tunes, but there is a considerable difference in volume between the first and second octaves. There have been some comments on how hard it is to blow the top G, A and B notes on this whistle. I didn’t find them a problem at all. This Clarke takes more air than, say, a Generation, but I found the playability and sound at the top of the second octave to be pretty good.
On another positive note, I found the tuning to be very good. The third D (at the top of the second octave) seems impossible to get in tune, but it doesn’t get played much and then usually as a passing note.
If I intended to play this as my regular whistle then I may of course get better results. I would definitely recommend the de-clogging solution; for me it saved this instrument. I’m sure someone out there loves this design, but it’s not really for me … though maybe it could get a role as a quieter night-time whistle?
So, my memory isn’t playing tricks with me and Clarke whistles used to have “squared-off” ends and didn’t have that indentation in the labium.
I think they did but can’t be sure I can really trust my memory of them: I believe I had two different ones at different times during the seventies and eighties. The last of those went where ever it went sometime by the late eighties ( it could be hiding in a box with unused ‘stuff’ in some corner).
The old Caluras and similar German and Eastern European ones certainly have a squared off windway with the top parallel to the bottom. It probably saves a lot of work to just fold over the sheet metal and leave it arched but it does make a poorer whistle.