I recently started practicing keys – slowly doing chromatic scales on my 8-key M&E flute. I’ve found a couple of keys particularly challenging. B-flat and Low C-natural. I’m curious about others’ experiences with these keys. And I would appreciate any feedback that might be helpful on learning these keys and keys in general.
B-Flat key. I find when I remove my left thumb from the body to play B-flat that the flute feels like it rolls inward a bit. I’m thinking that this is related to my hold and that I may have developed a habit of supporting my flute with my left thumb. I’ve been going through Grey Larson’s book again on working out a stable flute hold with the three pressure or anchor points. I think I understand the end game of developing a stable comfortable hold without depending on the playing fingers/thumb for support. Don’t think I’m quite there yet.
Low C-Natural Key. Where are the C#, C-Natural key usually positioned relative to the holes to press them with the least effort? How much effort is usually required to press the low C-Natural and adequately close the hole? I feel like quite a bit of effort is needed from my right hand thumb to oppose the left pinky to close the C-Natural hole. And is there a reason for the C-Natural roller key?
Grey Larson talks about the right pinky being one of the primary anchor points and he talks about the right thumb being an alternative archor point in his book. How is this supposed to work when you have keys? Where is the pinky supposed to rest relative to the keys? And how is the flute supported with stability when the pinky is removed from the body to play the low D#, C#, or C-Natural keys? Should the right thumb be used as a primary anchor point instead?
Finally, I think this might have been asked before, but is there a good source of information on technique with keys?
All of those things you mention, I do know one very good player that changes position completely to play in Bb and F for example and then reverts to usual hold for “home” keys.
As on any instrument, practice of scales & arpeggios, though a bit boring help with muscle memory and training generally towards making the whole process feel natural.
M&E flutes have a Bohm style rod-axle key assemblage on the foot-joint, right? So the roller on the C natural touch is to facilitate moving from C to C# and, more so, from C# to C - you just slide your finger from the one touch to the other and the roller helps you to do so smoothly, though it is still a rather awkward shift.
In terms of positioning the foot keys rotationally, that depends on the proportions of your hand and how you are using it, not on some fixed rule of alignment relative to the finger-holes. Once you have the optimum R hand posture for pushing the flute out with the thumb and the 3 main fingers falling comfortably onto their holes with their pads, (middle finger slightly arched) you want to find the right rotation of the footjoint for your little finger to fall neatly onto the C# touch without having either to reach for it or to pull back to avoid catching the C roller; a slight slide forward with it should then let you engage the C roller without moving the other fingers off their holes: the Eb key should then be comfortably positioned too. On a Bohm type foot you will probably be pressing the Eb key (and the others) down, but on a normal simple system set of foot keys it is more common that you are kinda pushing the Eb key inwards than pressing down on it - depending of course on precise configuration of the keys and the relative lengths of your fingers.
As for general stability, if you are getting it right it shouldn’t matter whether or not you are using keys, as you seem to realise. In the so-called Rockstro hold, the main R hand pressure outward is supplied by the thumb and the little finger (on the Eb key) is subsidiary. Some time ago we had a discussion about practising with the L thumb hanging loose both to have it ready to operate the Bb touch and also to help avoid L hand “death grip”. Try that for a while, because it will make you sort out the rest of your support system. Then you can go back to letting it rest against the side of the flute - I tend to roll it onto the Bb touch rather than lift it away - but avoid going back to using it as a significant part of holding the flute (auxiliary stabilisation without tension is fine) and certainly not to hold the flute up or counter-press against excessive gripping from the L hand fingers, which of course need to be relaxed and fluid.
The best way to develop your use of the keys is to get a period fingering chart showing their use and apply it to pieces you are learning. Maybe concentrate on tunes in a particular key-signature that uses a particular keyed fingering, say ones in D minor that will need the Bb key. Holmes suggestions and the reference to Terry McGee’s material are spot on.
One exercise for the left thumb which I find helpful is playing the flute with the left
thumb off it, several inches away, hanging there, as it were. When your grip
is good you will find the flute is secure this way and it helps develop
a good grip.
I know you horse about a fair bit denny. However there is always some relevance in your antics but, on this occasion< I must have missed it.
The thumbhole on the Irish flute for the C vent is pretty much where the thumb sat before the hole was there is about the same placement for most players as far as I can see .
It coincides with the B natural Boehm thumb position also which when lifted gives you the nat C vent on that also.
That’s because its not about what the left thumb is doing but about what everything else in your hands and the rest of your body is doing and therefore the best thing to do, and that thing will give a result of natural attrition, is to play a regular six holed flute enjoyably long enough so that one spontaneously can take the L thumb off without affecting overall grip on flute, without the need for all the high fallutin and complex theoretical angled ways to get around long practice over a decent period of time or trying to practice thumb dangling with a complex keyed instrument …
Tal is of course right that the ‘dangling left thumb’ exercise I suggested for developing a good grip
is of very limited value if your flute has a C natural thumb hole. Of course this is no problem
on other flutes. Lately I’ve been using a C natural key, in fact.
Another benefit (IMO) is that the exercise tends to help you relax the fingers of your left hand.
That is, if you have a death grip on the flute with L1, 2 and/or 3, and you let your left thumb
dangle, you will feel immediately (in the absence of the thumb’s counterpressure) that
you are pressing too hard. A relaxed left hand grip is a Good Thing. Too much pressure
slows us down and even invites injury.
I think a typical RH difficulty stems from the arrangement of the foot keys: they require a great deal of mobility of your hand. Jem, as usual, has put it all right but the task of “kinda pushing the Eb key inwards” still gives me a headache and the C# key seems to get in the way whenever my pinkie goes for the Eb key. I need to adjust the foot in a certain way when I want to use the C or C# key (that would be the positioning Jem talks about and it works all right) but to be able to use the Eb key I need to turn the foot out a bit. I’d like to find a way of using all three keys without having to stop to tinker with the foot.
Is there anyone here who could confirm that the Rockstro grip makes the whole business easier?
Does anyone use one of the Revised C Feet Terry offers (http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/c_foot.html)? They look so convincing (and beautiful), why aren’t they bandied around more?
Jem, I remember a video you made about playing the foot keys down to B. Do you think you could do another one once using your RR or a similarly keyed one, playing all three keys in sequences?
I could… but really haven’t got time at the moment - will try to keep it in mind and oblige if/when I get a chance. I do more-or-less use a Rockstro hold (not perfect at it - still tend to use R4 more than the thumb as the out-pusher, though always working at it!) However, if you find exactly the right rotation of the foot-joint I think you ought to be able to manage OK unless you have very unusually proportioned fingers. Remember also the crucial importance of R thumb positioning - it has a huge effect on the posture of the whole hand, so experimenting with varying that may help.
I just had a quick look back at those clips on the Rampone - of course one cannot adjust the position of the foot keys on that relative to the R hand tone-holes, but the actual disposition of the C# and C touches in relation to the Eb is not drastically different from that on the R&R English style foot - they aren’t as high, but the reach forward to engage them with R4 from its Eb position is pretty similar, so maybe rechecking those clips might help somewhat.
They’re here: http://www.box.net/shared/r367gnikg4 http://www.box.net/shared/fq3x6jqo88 http://www.box.net/shared/vul0k9m048
And here’s another clip (I’d forgotten about…) I did about foot keys, which may be just what you want and save me a job???: http://www.box.net/shared/ymil1742bm
BTW, this thread looks like another case of the one-post-vanishing-OPer… s/he isn’t picking up pms either. Where are you, kerry_todyruik? Are we helping?
