I’ve been thinking about C pipes a lot lately. I haven’t actually played a set yet, but if they’re anything like I think they are (being 1/2 way between the Bs and the Ds) there must be something there that attracts a lot of good pipers. Seamus Ennis might have had reasons we all don’t fully comprehend. They seem to be the pipes of choice for Brian McNamara. Several of our better pipers right here on C&F seem locked in on them too, like Pat Cannady, Peter Laban, maybe others have them…I know the C chanter is Tony’s favorite, and now Eskin’s.
The B pipes I had were great…a little more tempermental than the Ds, but soft and easy. I think C pipes can be played with other instruments easier than the Bs. Concertina and fiddle have no problem (not much anyway) transposing, and flutes come in different keys…all being the kind of the instruments a piper doesn’t mind playing with.
The finger stretch is easy enough for us mezzomorphs. Hey, isn’t there a fairly famous piper who is smaller than most of us who plays B pipes? I’m wondering what the secrets are of C pipers, what they are experiencing that others of us don’t know, that makes them feel just right.
Seamus Ennis had a C sharp which is a different beast, his father left it to him and that’s the reason I suppose.
My C was one of the early ones during the 80s and was followed by many after they heard Geoff and myself play. There’s no hidden secrets. It’s a matter of everybody wanting something else. I find myself thinking sometimes testing sets, hmmm B. Or C sharp.
Oddly, the lower hand finger stretch on my C chanter is greater than that on a Bb chanter I handled recently! The reason for this (if it’s a consistent thing) is that there’s a greater distance between the groupings of the Bb’s upper and lower hand toneholes, whereas on the C stick, all the toneholes are pretty much evenly laid out, give or take. It’s counterintuitive, to say the least.
Anyway, I have small hands and stunted pinkies, and I am able to finger (YMMV) a C chanter nonetheless.
Nano, were these chanters by the same maker? I would guess variances in distance between tone holes has more to do with different makers’ designs than just because of the different keys.
Strictly a matter of personal preference, of course, but I have found C and C# sets to be too nasal sounding, like some of the various Scottish small pipes (which make me laugh every time I hear them), whereas a B set just has a nice mellow hum. That being said, Pat Mitchell’s C set almost sounds like a D. I believe Peter made mention of this in a separate thread.
Different makers. You could well be right; I considered the possibility myself. FWIW, the fellow I was talking to said that this was a fairly normal phenomenon between Cnat and B-type chanters. Me, I really don’t know for sure.
Different makers or different styles, also . . . I feel like I’ve mentioned this in a recent post (so stop me if I did . . . oh, well, too late) that Geoff Wooff told me in a recent conversation that the fingerspan (particularly the bottom-hand) of his B chanter is smaller than that of the C chanter. Of course, he bases his B on a Coyne, and his C on a Harrington.
I feel like undercutting and the idiosyncracies of the various bore designs also might play a role in the fingerspan. I’m amazed at how easy it is to finger a Bb flute: the distance from embouchure to top hole is huge, but the actual finger spread isn’t all that much bigger than a D flute.
But someone else probably knows more about this. Actually, the conversation I had with Geoff about Harrington v. Coyne prompted the thread I started about the archetypes (of chanters, etc.) and what they mean, which was followed with several posts of it’s the piper and not the pipemaker. That’s true, but I consider that a given . . . so sadly I allowed the thread to die. Boo hoo.
I’ve wondered for years why B seemed to be “the” key for flat pipes.
When i was thinking about what pitch might be best for me, it struck me that the C whistle was the only one i ever actually used apart from the D, in terms of ensemble playing (which i do a fair amount of.) Anything else seemed like it would be downright anti-social.
So C it was, and is, for me. (My “desert island” set would be a 3/4 set in C.) To be fair, i’ve never really sat down and played any other pitch, but i’ve loved the two C sets i’ve played, and i don’t feel any desire to change. I do, however, long for some regs for my C pipes.
Well someone was asking for that reaction, other than that I think there are distinct characteristics from one maker to the other but really a forum like this is not the place to discuss in detail why you can open up and broaden the sound of C natural in quite a different way from a Harrington and that sort of stuff. Just takes too much time to detail that.
I paid Wally Charm a visit yesterday, and we played his Q&K B set. Wally had no troubles spanning it, even though he’s in his 60’s and of medium highth. A properly made chanter shouldn’t be a chore to play.
The B craze might be from Robbie Hannon and Jimmy O’Brian-Moran inheriting antique B sets, and people following in their lead, wanting that. There are are hardly any antique Bb sets in private ownership, by contrast. A lot more B’s were made; and many can’t quite make with the span of the Bb, even though it isin’t that much longer.
Don’t forget Padraig Mac Mathuna, Mick O’Brien, Sean Og Potts, Ronan Browne, or (last and definitely not least) Tommy Reck. It’s a great, warm buzzy sound. I’m not sure it’s what you would call a “craze” but there’s a lot of great recordings, some old, some more recent made with B pipes.
I suspect the rarity of the Bb instrument may have something to do with how much smaller people were 150+ years ago, before refrigeration, railroads, and mass production began to improve nutrition. They sound great, though.
Here’s something else to consider:
B pipes in the box are heavy enough. Now I’m all for what doesn’t kill me making me stronger, but there are things I’m not willing to do just to make a point.
I bet you wonder whatever possessed you to get a 5(or is it 4? can’t remember) regulator B flat set, Kevin, when it’s in the box and you have to carry it any distance
That Marc Guilloux guy at the Paris Club with the Four Reg Froment Bflat set is gonna tear his shoulder out lugging that thing around.
I should go visit Alain sometime just to see him drag out and assemble that 5 reg C# monster he plays. You’d need a sturdy chair…
Don’t forget that what we call B today used to be C in the nineteenth century. I don’t believe the pipemakers of that era intended to make anything unusual by aiming for their idea of C. I can’t imagine what they were thinking when they occasionally made what we now consider a Bb set.
Oddly I’ve always considered C sharp as the portal between ‘the two worlds’… best of both? Depends on one’s own ideas of ‘the both’ and the specific design in question ( as a flatter pitch afflictionado Concert pitch doesn’t really come into it for me, C sharp is as far as I’ve gone and found a satisfactory response).
The Quinn C chanter that I played recently (and a Seth Gallagher copy of the same design) produced a very warm ‘buzzy’ tone. Very different from say Tom Clarke’s Rogge C chanter. Neither design warrants comparison to any Scots small pipes that I’ve heard. Seamus Ennis’ tone in C sharp could quickly dispell that!
My B chanter sounds “harder” in tone than some of the C chanters (above included) that I’ve tried. It’s not just a matter of pitch IMHO. I like all the chanters that I’ve played and mentioned here regardless of how I’d ideally tweak the reeds.
The relative lengths of the chanters have remained constant, so there is not a shift from B to C going back 150+ years.
Why is B more popular that ever? More makers are making them. Leo Rowsome, Crowley, Kennedy concentrated on D pipes. Matt Kiernan and Dan Dowd were making pipes in B, C, and D and were full time makers but also basically retired from other professions (police and fire). There output was steady but low in comparison to younger full-time folks paying off mortgages, etc. Geoff and Alain started making B and C sets in the 1980s. Concert pitch remains the most popular pitch by far. When someone looks for a 2nd set, going away from D to B sort of makes sense - the greatest contrast in sound.
It’s 5 regulators. I have a little satchel with a shoulder strap that I carry half the set in…
I don’t know about people being more shriveled and shrunken in the old days. Some of the pipers in O’Neill’s book look to be well over 6 feet.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of pitches of old chanters and sets. Sounds like a good one for another Sean Reid CD.
