C natural, or a minor 7th

Hey everyone, I’m new to the world of pennywhistling. I have played music for several years though, and know theory fairly well. Unfortunately though I’m not very good at sight reading, which is part of why I’m learning the tinwhistle. (that and because I love the Irish punk band sound, and a huge part of that comes from the tinwhistle.)

But on to my question…

I’ve seen two different ways to play the natural C on a “D” whistle.

top hole half covered uOOOOO

and the A, G hole covered OXXOOO

Is there a standard which I should be using for this, or does it just depend on the whistle I’m using. (I own a Clarke sweetone) from what I can tell the pitch of the two is exactly the same on my whistle.

Thank you.

Yeah, it depends on the whistle. BUT, and this is a big one, C natural in Irish music does not necessarily have to be the perfectly tempered C nat you may used to if you are coming in from the assumption that all instruments and music are using equal temperament.

In Folk Music and Dances of Ireland, Brendan Breathnach, a very respected historian, UP player and collector of Irish trad, defines a C natural as falling “halfway between B and D.”

You have to ponder that one for a while for it to sink in when you read it. In that one statement, he is revealing that you aren’t in London or Paris anymore regarding scale tones. He also talks about F natural being a special note as I recall (don’t have the book here).

Others here are much more expert about tunings within the scale and there are threads about it. But my practical solution is this:

I understand and accept that I am not confined to just one C natural when playing this kind of music. I have choices. In general, if I am playing a tune that is in Aminor, I definitely want that half-holed version, especially in airs. In other cases, like D Mixo tunes, like Banish Misfortune, I rather like the sound of the sharper Cnat of the oxxoooo variety. The Old Bush is another tune that, to my ears, the sharper Cnat sounds better. I have heard pipers use a C sharp for it in fact.

And practically speaking, if you are playing fast music, and the oxxooo works better in the passage, go for it. Some would even just use the C sharp. Joanie Madden mentioned that one evening in chat because I was asking her about halfholing versus oxxooo.

The whistles I play (Burkes and cheapos) do not have a real C nat at oxxooo so this is where I am coming from. I understand from reading that other makers do have a more “in-tune” Cnat with that fingering. I am satisfied with my approach with what I have and what sounds good to me. I will have to adjust this thinking if I purchase a whistle that has a different option.

My two “cents.” Hope it helps.

Good reply from Weekenders.

I’m a pragmatist, and I prefer using what works. I usually half-hole, because I can fine-tune the C-nat on different whistles as I play, and it’s more or less the same on all whistles that I pick up.

I avoid the oxxooo cross-fingering because on most of my whistles, it renders a spot-on D on top of the second octave with proper breath control, so it’d confuse my poor simple brain for that fingering to be C-nat in one octave, and D at the top of the next.

Mark

Another fingering that can be used on some whistles is OXXXOO. This usually gives a slightly flatter c-nat than OXXOOO. It depends on the whistle, however. Experiment to see what works best.

Many have gone as far as OXXXOX … This is a really good
Cnat on many of the cheapies, and some higher-priced models.

It was a little disconcerting when I played one of Wanderer’s
Stonehenge whistles. That sucker was pretty flat with OXXXOX.
When I finally realized this I found that OXXOOO was perfect!
So, you have to be flexible unless you stick to just one whistle.

It varies from whistle to whistle as how to finger the C nat. My whistles take one of these:

OXX XOX
OXX OOX (my prefered fingering)
OXX XOO
OXX XXO
(| OO OOX
(half hole top hole)

I mostly use the second one and “back off” of the breath pressure to blow it into tune.