So, two days to our tionol and my tenor and baritone bronze reg reeds have crapped (fuzzy sound/out of tune/harder to blow)out. I have retied them, lightly sanded them, and now they drop pitch on the top two notes in addition to the aformentioned problems. Are there any understood diagnostics for this type of reed?
The design of these reeds is based on the D.M. Quinn’s process as detailed in “The Pipers’ Review”, published a few years back.
t
The most common problem I have seen in reeds of this type is a shifting of the blades relative to each other. This could be happening even if you have retied the blades. With the reed in position in the regulator, before you insert it into the stock, check to make sure that the edges of the reed’s blades are in contact with each other all the way along both sides. If they are not, try twisting the reed head a bit so that the edges come back into alignment. If you see gaps between the blades, the problem is more likely to have been in the way the blades were burnished before being tied together. It sounds as if the reed was working well before, so I guess this is less likely to be the case.
Did you make the reeds yourself?
The kinds of problems you describe do show up, from time to time, even in reeds that look as if their alignment is perfect. I wish I could be of more help, but I just don’t know enough about these things yet to say for sure what’s going on.
Yes, I made these reeds. If the blades came out of alignment, wouldn’t they leak when you suck air through the staple while holding your finger over the mouth of the reed? These reeds seemed to be airtight.
Mind you, these reeds never worked great…especially intonenation wise. Had to do alot of bluetack on the rushes. What does over -burnishing/underburnishing do for the tone/pitch of these reeds?
t
Not necessarily. It’s possible for the blades to shift but remain in contact enough to give a good seal. If the blades bear against each other anywhere except on the very edges, that will change the regime of vibration.
Mind you, these reeds never worked great…especially intonenation wise. Had to do alot of bluetack on the rushes. What does over -burnishing/underburnishing do for the tone/pitch of these reeds?
t
I am still working on this. I believe I have a better feel for it than I did a couple years ago when I wrote the page of directions that appeared in the Pipers’ Review, but I don’t feel confident enough about it to try to articulate it. Perhaps other people who have made bronze reeds could add their observations?
When I burnish a reed, I try to force the tightest curve into the metal down at the root, where it fits onto the staple, and then to gradually reduce the amount of burnishing toward the lips. It seems to be necessary to go over the entire surface of the metal with the burnisher at least once, but I try to keep it at a minimum toward the lips. The root end is very heavily burnished: lots of pressure resulting in a very tight curve and therefore a better fit to the staple. This also seems to encourage the blades to stay lined up with each other.
Beginner’s luck is something that I have seen again and again when people take up reedmaking, but it’s not something anyone can count on. I don’t think bronze reeds are easier to make than cane reeds, in fact quite the contrary. The two most prolific reedmakers I know have made thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of cane reeds, and they both claim they still don’t have a good enough handle on it. I have made many hundreds of bronze reeds, but certainly can’t claim to have mastered it. I suppose the old saw holds true: if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
Just a guess, but would metal fatigue have something to do with the way bronze reeds seem to just suddenly fail without warning? All that flexing must have some accumulative effect on the metal.
djm
Could be. Do you use metal reeds, djm?
I’m not a metallurgist, but it has been explained to me by someone who knows about these things that as long as the motion of a spring body is within a certain range, the number of flexings is for all practical purposes limitless. If you bend a spring body beyond this limited range it will distort and fail to return to its previous position. This is the process that is used to form the blades of a bronze reed into their trough-like shapes, and for that matter, it is the same process that is used to form most non-ferrous springs. The burnishing which forms the thin metal of the reed blades into their usable shapes also work-hardens it, and to a small degree increases its stiffness, or “springiness.” But after the reed is assembled, its range of motion is very small. It is certainly possible to “frog-click” a reed while you’re working on it, and that often ruins it, but I don’t think that’s likely to happen under normal playing conditions. On the other hand, it isn’t safe to rule out the possibility of metal fatigue. I just think that it’s more likely that the problems Mr. Kleen is describing (and I’ve also encountered them and had to deal with them) are more likely to be the result of structural problems such as parts shifting their relative positions. I suspect that the sinking tones on the high notes with increased pressure may have to do with insufficient arch in the “heart” of the reed. Tricky.
I had some for my regs. Joe Kennedy made them (I think I was his guinea pig). Anyway, they were quite good for about a month or so, well balanced to the drones and not too loud. Then they stopped sounding at all. Neither of us could figure out why, and I have been using cane reg reeds ever since. Joe has made more bronze reeds since then, but I won’t use something that I don’t know how to fix, or can’t be fixed easily.
If movement or misalignment is the problem, what would happen if I spot-welded them in place on the staple? (yes, I know, the sledgehammer approach 
)
Do you have a source for bronze/phosphour-bronze? I am guessing something this thin must be a type of shim stock. No-one around here seems to carry it.
Thx,
djm
I get the stuff from MSC Industrial Supply. It is Alloy 510 Spring Tempered Phosphor Bronze, 0.004” x 4” x 25’, #32010092. A roll that long will cost about $140US, plus shipping, taxes and so on. http://www.mscdirect.com or telephone 1-800-645-7270
If that’s too much for you, contact me by PM.
Woudl heatring the bronze with a torch to anneal it and the reburnishing it be any help? It might get rid of the metal stress.
Marc
I’ve tried annealing at two different stages: before doing any burnishing; and after burnishing, before tying up. The first doesn’t seem to help. The second makes the metal too soft to be useful as a reed.