Bread

Poststructural Pub
21

“PastorKeith specifies margarine”

I usually cook with butter, unless cost is an issue. Butter means taste in my book :slight_smile:
The margarine (not that spread stuff - but real margarine) usually works fine though and is cheaper.

On salt - My baking research suggests that direct contact with table or kosher or sea salt will kill the yeast. The salt in the butter won’t, but I always use unsalted butter because that way I control how much salt is in the mix. Salt is usually added later in the mixing process as it helps tighten the developing gluten.

To proof active dry yeast you really just have to add it to some measured warm (not hot) water. Hot water will kill the yeast, game over. If instead of “active dry yeast” you are using “Active Yeast” or “fast rising” or “bread machine” yeast it doesn’t have to be proofed at all - it can be added directly with the flour.

Cook Book Aurthor Rosy Levy Berenbaum has an excellent site on baking in general with lots of questions answered in the forums on a wide range of topics including substitutions of ingredients and so forth.
realbakingwithrose dotcom

The no-knead recipe from the Times and the interest that it has sparked is cool. Rose has a lot to say about it on her site - just search for it.
I do bake some bread that does not require a bread pan or fancy equipment (equipment just makes it easier/faster) - I do a rustic loaf out of Joe Ortiz’s “The Village Baker” that uses Rye, Wheat and White flour that only requires a stout wooden spoon and a small wicker basket filled with a dish towel where the bread is shaped before it is baked on a flat sheet pan or baking stone. Oh, and a bit of patience in the mixing, not much else.

Another site that has a gazillion recipes is
bobsredmill DOT COM and click on recipes.
They are categorized rather well.

You will find that bread bakers like those who play the whistle and other instruments can be quite opinionated and passionate.
Take everything said with a grain of salt and just have fun.
:smiley:

To me baking is like art, except you get to eat your work.

Blessings
pastorkeith

22

Ah, but what of some of the fine potato bread recipes?
Would this not marry the best of both worlds?
I could dig up a recipe for “Rosemary Potato Bread” if you like.

blessings
pastorkeith

23

I would avoid margarine, as most of them contain trans-fats which now appear to be worse for you than saturated fat.

Olive oil “margarine” and spreads typically contain a good bit of water, which defeats the purpose of using them.

You can make bread quite successfully with just olive oil or any other liquid oil – that’s what I use. You can, in fact, make bread without any oil at all.

The crucial ingredients are flour, water, and some sort of leavening. This can be yeast or sourdough starter.

The exact quantities of anything aren’t critical, either, except in a sort of get-you-started sort of way. That is, they’re helpful to a first-time bread-maker in that they will generally produce what you need, but after you see that you’re able to do whatever you want, as long as you come close to that ideal.

Yeast-bread isn’t like a quick bread or cake. With the latter, you just mix specific amounts of this with a certain amount of that and it forms a third, completely different substance.

With a yeast bread, you coax the yeast to start growing by sprinkling them on warm water with a little sugar. Then you mix your liquids, even your melted butter (once it’s cooled off) with that. To that, you add enough flour to make a not-wet mass. You knead it, or mix it in a mixer, to cause the wheat’s gluten to form elastic strands, which are what will form the “balloons” the yeast will fill with the carbon dioxide they produce. The better the gluten, the better the bread will rise. You allow this to rest a while, then knead it again, working in a bit more flour until it forms a smooth elastic mass which can be shaped into loaves. Allow this to rise once more, then you bake it.

The exact quantities of ingredients don’t matter exactly. You use whatever you need to get the right stuff. Bread flour has more gluten, so it works better. Better bread flour has even more gluten, so it works even better. Some additives might hamper the growth of the yeast (too much honey or salt will do this). Other additives, if added too freely, will prevent the gluten from forming its balloons, and you’ll end up with a leaden mass.

As long as you’re close on the recipe quantities, you’ll be able to see what is “supposed to” happen. After that, you can experiment. Bread is a living substance–you nurture it rather than mix up a recipe.

Here’s another excellent bread website: www.kingarthurflour.com

I just might have to make some bread tomorrow!

24

Lambchop you indeed are a bread artisan!
You are correct - true bread is much more feel than formula.
pastorkeith

25

Hmm. My granny’s bannock was never so much like bread as a very heavy cake. Maybe it was “quick bread.”

djm

26

Bannock is typically made with baking powder as the leavening agent rather than yeast which would make it a quick bread.
pastorkeith

27

I have found that sourdough starter is almost as demanding as a pet. I once kept one alive for a year.

28

Don’t use margarine unless you want to die. Hydrogenated oils should never get anywhere near food. If you give up on making your own buy a Panasonic SD253 machime. It takes three minutes to measure out the ingredients and that’s all there is to it, and the bread is miles better than shop bread. Cheaper too. You can afford to use the finest organic ingredients. Not what the purists want to hear but it’s a good happy medium for the harassed house-husband. :wink:

29

I ended up using the bread machine for the first several hours. Then, when it’s time for the last kneading, taking it out and spreading it by hand into some loaf pans. I have also made dinner rolls, using the whole-wheat recipe.

I think bread machines are grand and worth the investment. I also make pizza dough with 'em and customize the ingredients with fresh herbs, cheese and the like.

30

Uh, no . . . I just have a lot of experience with leaden masses.

I have turned out stuff even birds wouldn’t peck at.

31

I over fed the sourdough starter that lived in my fridge once…just once.
(You don’t do that twice and stay happily married)
:blush:
pastorkeith

32

Oh thank God!

I was worried this thread was about the band…

33

:wink: :stuck_out_tongue:

34

Yessir, I’d like to give that a go. Please do dig up that recipe if you get a chance.

Thank you very much. :slight_smile:

35

Strange. To me a bannock is an oatcake.
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usrecipes/oatcakes/index.html

36

Dunno. She was from Ireland (Dollar). She called it a “bannock”, or “crofter’s bread.” It came out on a flat pan, about a foot round and three inches high. It looked like a giant cow pat (I got dinged for saying so). Its consistency was as much like cake as it was bread, but it tasted like wonderful bread. I know there was both white and whole wheat flour in it. It never tasted quite the same way twice.

My mother tried to learn how to make it because we all loved it, but my granny did everything by eye, added whatever was to hand, and measured nothing. My mother wasn’t much of a cook to begin with, so she never picked up “the art.”

djm

37

Wiki says the term is used for a few different things. Most commonly the oatcake and the flatbread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bannock_(food)

38

Hi Deej

Are you sure your gran is Irish?

Dollar is in Scotland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar,_Clackmannanshire

David

39

:laughing:

Makes sense, bannock is a Scottish term according to wiki.

Maybe Deej should reconsider the type of traditional music he plays and start learning strathspey’s instead. :smiley:

40

Her family name was Dollar. They were from Dublin at the time they moved to Halifax, NS. Small p presbyterian. I don’t know if she brought it with her, or learned it in NS as per wiki.

And I don’t much care for strathspeys, thx.

djm