Hello everyone,
New member here, first thread. Let me apolagize for spelling and grammar right away, im not english.
So, lets get down to buisness, I started playing tin whistle a few weeks (4-5 maybe) ago, everything went fine, learning some tunes, working on some ornamentation etc.
But tonight I had this feeling that im doing something wrong, was watching a few tutorials and stuff and I got the impression that you should either play like a.) always blow a steady stream of air constantly untill you breath and then repeat or b.) “tongue”
So, what im doing is I blow on each note, just stoping to blow air, not tongueing etc. Ofc I dont stop completely , would sound bad, I still have a nice flow to it and I wont stop on every note.
Example, The sally gardens. DEFE-DEFA and so on, so im blowing on the D then on the E then on the F etc…is this o.k. in the whistle world? Or should blow constantly untill im out of breath, inhale and then breath constaly again?
Anyways I am aware that this may sound a bit fuzzy but I hope that someone understands and can give me an answer
You’ll get a lot of different answers to this one. Some people hardly tongue at all. Once you learn some simple ornaments like a cut or a strike, you can articulate between notes with those. Other people tongue a lot.
I do some of each. The tonguing I do is fairly light. Listen to a lot of good players to see what they do, and experiment with both techniques.
I think it’s the “out of breath” that’s important here, that is, you need to know where it’s better, insofar as keeping the feel of the music, to breathe; you need a bit of direction here, like on long notes, cutting out the middle note of a triplet, etc. You shouldn’t just blow until you’re out of air.
Tonguing is an ornament. Kind of like cuts or strikes. So just like other ornaments, some people use it more, while others use it less.
In some tunes I tongue triplets because it really makes them pop. In some other tunes I like to use cuttings for the triplets because it makes them smooth.
hmm I see…but the way you should play whistle is pretty much keeping an steady stream of air and not stop blowing sort of?
Writing this i come to think of “The wild rover” im sure everyone know how that one goes and this tune wouldnt sound right if i kept an steady stream troughout the song right?
Also, do one have to tongue, or is it ok to seperate notes by just cutting the airflow from simply stop blowing?
If I understand you correctly, you’re talking about “huffing” a separate breath for every note. And I’m afraid that is 100% wrong. Not only for whistle, and not only for The Wild Rover. It’s not the way wind instruments work.
You need to blow a steady stream of air to extend the the phrases of the melody, then use techniques of fingering and articulation to define and separate the notes.
It’s exactly like singing or talking. You wouldn’t use a separate breath for every word you speak or every note you sing. You breathe naturally, and take a new breath when you come to the end of a phrase.
The habit you’re describing is very dangerous, and you need to stop right away. I have known several wind players who started to learn without teachers, and who thought that “huffing” was OK. It ruined their playing, and even years later they were unable to correct the problem.
If possible, try to find a teacher or wind player (flute, whistle, recorder, anything) to give you a beginner lesson. Internet resources are good, but ten minutes with a teacher can be worth ten hours of trying to figure things out on your own.
MTGuru – in the original post the word “tongue” was used. To me that indicates that he’s using his tongue to separate notes, and not his diaphragm. The later is certainly wrong. But the former, I’m led to believe, is the default for orchestral flute. That is, they tongue everything that isn’t marked with a slur.
Anyway I’ve been thinking about this, and I found an example of a place that seems to require a tongue. OR maybe I’m just not clever enough to work something out.
The phrase goes A B A B C#
It’s in an air. I like to slide from the B to the C#. Playing this phrase with the slide to C# from B doesn’t seem to work without a tongue prior to the slide.
BUT – in the general case for whistle (that is, most of the time) you want an uninterupted flow of breath, using cuts and taps to articulate notes.
hello again guys,
actually wat MTGuru wrote was exaktly what I was doing But its good I understand now, havent been playing that long. Awesome that you understood, I wasnt sure anyone would hehe…but anyway, thanks everyone for your help. Apreciate it.
Next step, re-learning all my songs the right way then try and learn a jig, damn their fast
Edit: Might came out wrong tho, to be clear, I didnt (dont) take a new breath of air everytime i blow a note, more that if there are 3 D´s for example in a row i might blow them seperately with a small pause in between by just stop the airflow by not blowing (confusing) rather then using my tongue to stop it. Makes sense?
Sure! I’m sorry my last post was a bit strong, but I wanted to make sure you got the point, and the other replies didn’t seem to understand the “huffing” problem.
Yes. That sounds like a description of what’s known as “throating” - stopping the note with the back of the throat instead of the tongue. It’s similar to the action you make when you cough.
It’s a legitimate technique, but less common than tonguing on the whistle, and more common on the flute. And in Irish traditional whistle style, when you have 3 notes in a row, that is usually handled with some kind of finger ornamentation - rolls, cuts taps, etc. - possibly in combination with tongue/throat articulation.
To learn about that, Brother Steve’s and Ryan Duns’ online lessons can be helpful.
Edit: seem to edit alot haha, but on my way to work i realized that i may have been to literate (is this a word? like literally) with the whole “constant stream of air”, in the wild rover as we used for example, the intro in it would need some tonguening or throating i tought…but if i blow constantly but just alternate between blowing a bit harder/softer i can achieve that hoppy sound anyway. This must be correct whistling?
Btw im sorry for being naggy and repetetive but im just afraid im learning it wrong and thus ruining my whistle playing. Just want to make sure thats not the case
Good luck with the whistling. A few thoughts to add…
mmm…I understand the general point but I’m always uncomfortable when I read these kind of statements for someone who is just starting to play…and when we use words like ‘legitimate’. It’s hard to think of anything that is not ‘legitimate’ for an individual note, in the right context (but then I’ve never seen a copy of the official rule book and I don’t think any of the whistling farmers round have one either. Any idea where can I get a copy for them? ).
I’m joking obviously, but it’s important to emphasise what MT said about ‘less common’, and what highlandpiper said about ‘in the general case for whistle (that is, most of the time)’. I thought MT’s most important point was don’t practice by stopping the air flow between every note and do learn how to play whole phrases with a constant flow of air, using fingers to separate the notes (but don’t get the idea that it’s ‘wrong’ if you sometimes tongue, huff, stop, flutter, or anything else if it sounds good).
…the much bigger problem is knowing what ‘sounds good’! You will find lots of rules written on the Internet and (like written sheet music) they are only trying to describe something approximately. It’s folk music, you’re learning a language, an accent, a sense of humour, informed by a landscape, a history and a culture, listening and experiencing are really important. Lots of listening… if you learned all your English from a written grammar you’d never sound like what a native speaker does
PS. you might find it useful to practice your techniques by listening/learning some (easy) jigs and reels rather than popular song tunes (like the Wild Rover).
It’s a question of opinion & taste, to some extent. In my opinion, tonguing provides the texture of a tune.
I’ve been listening to a lot of YouTube whistling, and was surprised that a lot of players seem to slur absolutely everything, with no tonguing at all… to me, it turns all tunes into one bland mush. But if you like it - hey, what do I know?
OK, I’ll bite. Under what circumstances do you advocate stopping the breath between two notes using the diaphragm?
To me, it makes a lot more sense to give a beginner a few basic rules of thumb. Like don’t stop the breath with the diaphragm, and use tonguing rarely. If a person stays with it they’ll discover all sorts of tricks (some good, some not).
Well, it’s more a matter of pedagogy than absolute truth and justice. In my experience, it’s most unhelpful to a beginner to point out that there are a thousand ways to do something. Far better at first to establish one solid way to approach a particular playing issue, and to set mastery as a goal. This quickly builds confidence, and lays the foundation for the student to explore the other 999 ways when technical ability is no longer an obstacle to overcome, but a tool to exploit creatively.
lol, I thought that might invoke a response. For sure, I’m not disagreeing the principle. I thought it was good general advice from the both of you, and I wouldn’t call myself an expert, but I think when people are starting from scratch it’s all too easy to see everyone else online as the expert and take things too literally (especially when English isn’t a first language)… and mea culpa for injecting the irony on that count (oops and Latin too)
I’m not advocating huffing as a technique but I’m sure it goes on sometimes in dark corners between consenting adults and there probably isn’t a law against it. As I said…
I thought MT’s most important point was don’t practice by stopping the air flow between every note and do learn how to play whole phrases with a constant flow of air
PS. I suppose if I was being very mischievous I might suggest a bit of huffing (rather than tonguing) on almost every note that follows directly after a pause for breath, but I might be wrong
and this tune wouldnt sound right if i kept an steady stream troughout the song right?
But its good I understand now, havent been playing that long. Awesome that you understood, I wasnt sure anyone would hehe…but anyway, thanks everyone for your help. Apreciate it.
