Backpressure

The second time I read it - slowly - my tiny brain absorbed the meaning. Good explanation I think - though an illustration would help. Here’s a decent one.

But - unfortunately - I have an electric stove.

Thanks, Reyburn, I had you figured as more a solid-fuel</a](http://www.rayburn-web.co.uk/>solid-fuel</a)> type.

But I’m still floundering a bit.

When I compare a Dixon with some of the early low whistles that I tried (and I’m purely guessing on the basis of vintage that they may have been Overtons or Overton-inspired), I find that I can fill the Dixon effortlessly, but with the others, no matter how hard I blew I just couldn’t get a note out of them. It seemed to me that the air just ran through without meeting any resistance, just as it would with a flute that is blown without any embouchure. Yet these are the kind of whistles that people seem to describe as having lots of backpressure. That’s why I asked whether high-backpressure whistles need a blowing technique that requires setting up resistance within the respiratory system so as to increase the velocity rather than the volume of the airstream. If that is the case, I can then see how slackening off the pressure could create the sort of swooning drop in pitch (as also achieved by Matt Molloy on the flute) which to me is part of the <a href=http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=43017>"haunting Low D sound" that I don’t get out of the Dixon or even the Burke.

The problem here, is that you don’t know what you played, so your question can’t be answered. If you played an Overton in good working condition and felt that no matter how hard you blew you couldn’t get a note, then either your mouth was leaking at the seal on the whistle, or you weren’t blowing hard enough, which is why I made the original comment I did - but then I was taking you at your word that it was an Overton.

Now, however, I strongly suspect you were playing a different brand of whistle, one requiring low backpressure, but high volume of air. Still though, you should have been able to get a sound, even though it would be much harder to “fill” than an overton, or even a flute.

But again, the question can’t be answered without knowing what whistles you actually played, and if the were, indeed, in proper working order.


Loren

Thanks, Loren. It was quite a few years ago, and I’ve no idea what make(s) of whistle I tried. But even then, it would not have been something as elementary as leaking around the mouthpiece. Admittedly, the span of the fingerholes was extremely awkward for me, but in such cases I would generally try to play an “a” to minimise this.

The analogy with mis-blowing a flute is relevant, because I felt that no matter how hard I blew, my lungs would never be big enough to sustain more than a note or two per breath, if I ever managed to get a note out of the whistle at all: I really felt that there was some “knack” that I was missing.

Some low D whistles really do require quite a bit of air (volume) to be moved through them (I don’t want to name names), in order to get and sustain good tone. These aren’t necessarily bad instruments, they just have a design that makes them rather demanding to play with regards to lung capacity, and these would typically be your low back pressure whistles, which would feel like you were blowing into a pipe with little resistance to your breath.

High back pressure whistles would, essentially, be the opposite - you can play for a long time on a single breath of air, but there is significantly more resistance when you blow.

Loren

That makes perfect sense to me, it just seemed that the term was being used in the opposite sense, which is what had me puggled. Would it therefore be fair to say that the easy-to-blow Dixon has more rather than less back-pressure than, say the Burke (which are the only two that I can judge from having one of each and played both of them a bit)?

BTW, lest I appear to have shown less than due reverence for the cosmic drainpipe, Brigitte has suggested that I hit Mönchengladbach for some field trials. I plan to take her up on that suggestion when I recover from all the travelling I’ve been doing lately

anyone who is confused about backpressure and wants to send me $7.00 to cover shipping is welcome to my Serpent SassyBrass. Believe me, you’ll understand the concept afterwards. :wink:

Serp makes them with high back pressure on requirements as a matter of taste, so this isn’t a dig. But I don’t really have any use for the whistle, and I got it on a trade of a trade, so it’s not like I’m out much.

[edit] A couple of people were interested in this whistle, so I have to withdraw this offer..

Yes. I was about to say - try a SYN high D - that teaches one all about backpressure in a dramatic way! On low whistles it’s not quite as dramatic but probably more critical.

Well, if it’s what I think it is, and it might not be what I think it is, I think I learned plenty about it on my ghb practice chanter.

After playing some new whistles that I hadn’t tried before, I’ve determined I really like whistles with heavy backpressure requirments. Since I’ve been playing clarinet for so long I’m used to really leaning into it to work the notes out.

I like back pressure on my low whistles and sometimes on my high whistles, but very rarely. I’m more of a generation/Burke guy on the high whistles, but an Overton/Chieftain guy on the low Whistles…I wonder where the break would be since I have Generation Bb I really like. I guess that means I need a Bb Overton or Chieftain to find out.

No offence, O Venerdirex, but your use of the term “backpressure requirements” is precisely the sort of usage that suggests that you and a lot of others are using the term “backpressure” in precisely the opposite sense to that suggested by Loren.


:boggle:

Wait, now I’m confused: King Friday’s bit that you quoted, if I’m reading it right, does describe the proper usage for the term - certainly playing a clarinet (I’ve tooted on one or two) fits the bill, relative to your average whistle. All the reed instruments I’ve tried had “relatively” high backpressure, when compared with most whistles.


Loren

Oh dear.

It looks as if I’ll have to make that trip to Möngchengladbach sooner rather than later.

And hopefully come back singing sweetly, like Madeleine Kahn, “Oh! Sweet mystery of backpressure, at last I’ve found thee!”

Well now I don’t know if that’ll clear things up for you either, because Colin now makes both high and relatively low back pressure whistles :laughing:

You really should make the trip if at all possible, Colin and Brigitte are wonderful, and you’ll have a lovely time, plus you’ll no doubt return with some fabulous whistle or three.


Sadly, my trip to visit them for this fall is off :cry: Perhaps next year…


Loren

If you go back to the beginning of this thread you’ll notice I was confused as to what backpressure was at that point. I’m clearly no expert on backpressure, but I’m pretty sure I spoke correctly last time.

I agree with Loren. I just bought me a second-hand Overton (by Bernard Overton). I had the luck to compare some whistles at the place I bought mine. I tried eg. an Alba also. It was easier to play than the Overton. But it all seems to come to getting to know your instrument PLUS keeping it clean. I took the Overton home with me, polished it and cleaned it (also the nipple) and it got much easier to play on immediately. Now I practised for a week and it gets easier quickly, just because I get used to it. I think you have to go by the tone you like. And the Overton for me has a VERY VERY beautiful tone. Eventually it’s your breath that gives it colour.

That’s a strange thing, Loren will probably have an explanation. When I first got my Gold Chieftain low D it was much easier to play after I got the thing polished up. It had been sitting in the shop for 9 years before I finally bought it.

Hi Arnie,

Welcome to the board!

Glad you like your Overton and are already getting used to it so well. I once played an Overton Low d and thought it very difficult to get some sound out of it, indeed because of backpressure which is not accectly my thing.